Stephanie Mehta: Welcome, Anjali. I’m so glad you’re with us today.
Anjali Sud: Thank you, it is great to be here.
SM: Vimeo, you lead a workforce of 1,300 people worldwide — you creatives, you have finance people, you have technologists. So I’m going start with a really easy question: what was it like to manage this diverse workforce through global pandemic, a racial reckoning and a very fraught return to office?
AS: Oh, it was breeze, Stephanie. No, it was really challenging. You know, I think only constant has been change. And as a leader, you obviously — you have workforce that’s looking for certainty, and they’re looking to what’s happening around them. And I think what we found, as leaders, no matter what company you were … responsible for, was that you couldn’t offer certainty, and couldn’t always control the environment and the things around you. so, you know, for me, it was really about agility. How do stay flexible as a team? How do we communicate real time and keep people informed as we try and move through things? And then, also just do we lead with more humanity? You know, for Vimeo, one of the I’ve really learned over the last few years is each experience the world so differently. We have employees who are remote. We have an team in Ukraine … employees who are on the front lines, who are literally war. On the other hand, you have people in different of the world who are experiencing mental-health challenges or burnout, and so think it was really just — the hardest part was not being able to give everyone certainty, not able to just apply a one-size-fits-all rule for everyone. But I ultimately think it us, as a company, to build more trust, because to be agile flexible, and to lead with humanity, you have to trust other. And so, I’m sort of optimistic that actually we’re emerging this time with a culture that is more flexible and nimble, and also, hopefully, more trust.
SM: Can you give an example of something that you put place, perhaps during the pandemic, to enhance communications or build trust or create a greater sense community or even to communicate that there is no certainty, that is a muscle you think you’ll continue to use in the organization far into future?
AS: There’s a couple of things that we did. — and we are a video platform, so I obviously have to about video, but I mean this sincerely — one of the hardest parts, you’re all sort of disparate, is you lose context and lose nuance when you communicate. And we did make a concerted effort to move away from and chat, text-based communication, as much as possible, and actually try, particularly for our leadership team, we were communicating, to do it with your face, and your hands and body and your emotions. And we did that through live streaming a lot communications, recording a lot of videos. We sent asynchronous video messages. So I send … record my screen and just send a note out to people. Every new hire does a video to and introduce themselves. A lot of our meetings we’ve actually replaced with just quick video presentations. And actually, that really did was allow the humanity and the context to come through and I think helped us a lot to, kind of, stay close. So was one, I think, really important thing.
Another important thing is, I think, just mechanisms to make it easier to talk about when things aren’t working, because a part of being agile is recognizing we have an that isn’t working. And so one of the things we do at Vimeo is we try — I this in all of my town halls, we do it a lot of meetings — is always talk about what’s working, are our top three things, and what isn’t working — yet. we’ve kind of created, I think, a framework that of takes the stigma away from talking about what’s working. And when you make that normalized and comfortable people, I feel like it’s allowed us to be more open, an organization, about what do we need to change, do we need to pivot. And both of those, more video-first in our communication and being more transparent and normalizing what’s not working, I think has really helpful, and certainly something we’re carrying forward.
SM: I love that advice being video-first. So many of our members of our workforce live in a video world. They’re to video as a means of communication. Which brings me my next question. You’ve talked about how the organization has changed. How you see the workforce changing? What is different with the millennials, and even, now, the first wave of Gen Z coming the workplace?
AS: I think it’s incredibly different. And, know, one of the things that we think about Vimeo a lot is a lot of the mechanisms and communication modes we still use today, they’re really antiquated. They were designed for a different environment and a totally different generation. But I see a of differences. One of them, I think, is the line between your personal life and work life is blending. … If you think about your personal life — at TikTok. This generation is used to consuming content, learning, engaging, a very specific way. And if they then have to come work and to be trained on a job, read 300-page manual? Like, it’s not going to happen, right? Or if you miss the meeting, and have to watch the Zoom recording of a three-hour — that’s just not going to happen. And so think that there is definitely sort of this — you know, we talk about the “consumerization enterprise.” Those are just fancy words for saying the way … we and interact in our personal lives is going to to work. And so I definitely think that’s an area opportunity.
The other thing I see from sort of the generation, the newest generation coming the workforce, is sort of, of course mission-driven, but I think there’s a desire really understand the “why” behind things. And one of our mantras is we never talk about the “what” without “why.” And I think there’s a desire to — idea that, well, there’s a hierarchy, or “My boss told me that this what we’re going to do” or — that, I think, is moving away, and people, they don’t just want to do something because someone with formal authority told them do it. They want to do it because they understand why it matters, why ties to the mission. And I think that that leaders to really bring more of the “why” into how communicate and motivate people.
So those are two of the things I see, then, you know, the third I think is just flexibility. think — and this is true of all of us, but particularly the younger generation — I think they’re for flexibility and they want options and choices. And it’s not always easy and feasible provide ultimate flexibility, but this is where I try and orient it more to agility. can we have approaches and principles and be committed to things, but also know when to question, and to actually pivot?
SM: Yeah. Anjali, can you share a examples of ways that you at Vimeo have tried to really be proactive when it comes addressing or understanding what your next generation of employees going to want, either in terms of purpose or in terms of or in terms of flexibility? Are there programs or processes you’ve put place that really speak to this big sea change we’re seeing in terms of values from workforce?
AS: Firstly, of course, it’s all about listening, right? And I think, like organizations, the way we’ve tried to listen and understand our workforce is very similar: it’s Q and and engagement surveys, and things like that. And some of the things that we’ve done, we have a and culture NPS, net promoter score, the same way have for our users, for our internal teams. But would say one of the things that we’ve really tried to do is appreciate that when we inputs from our employees, 1,300 employees … you can’t at the averages. You can’t look at it all totality and try and pull out an obvious “Oh, is how everybody’s feeling.” Because what you actually — you really dig into it and truly listen and do focus groups and to people — what you’ll find is actually there’s very different experiences and among your employees. And so, I think for us, what we’ve just tried to do is have a bunch of different mechanisms and then resist the urge to conveniently pull, like, “Oh, this is everyone’s feeling, let’s just do this thing as the action.” And it’s hard, and we’re kind of figuring it out, but I will tell you, some of the things that we’ve heard from have changed our approach to hybrid work or travel or even things our approach to compensation or our approach to DE I. So I think it’s more just like I said, that agile listening, really understanding what’s happening, but not treating everything as, like, an average or the same. And for us, it’s particularly stark because we have offices and teams in so many countries and the differences, they’re substantial. They’re really substantial, about the we solve different things. And we used to have a very, sort of, “One Vimeo” global approach in name of consistency and fairness, and what we found is have to be more localized. We really do. We to design mechanisms to support our teams in a different way, because their experiences and the world around is quite different.
So I think that’s definitely been one, and I will you, it has involved a lot of — as an team and leadership team — it’s involved a lot of things, it not working, and changing them. And a great example is our Q A. I feel like every leader I know has a perspective on they do open Q and A or anonymous Q and A, or real-time Q A. We’ve changed our approach there multiple times, and know we will again, because we’re still figuring out the right to listen and have a dialogue with a very workforce.
SM: I want to stay on newcomers to the workplace for another moment, because another thing I hear from CEOs of my and older is a concern about making sure that we are not just providing our youngest with the flexibility and the purpose that they need, but the training and the wisdom that comes, oftentimes, from in close proximity to a mentor or to somebody who’s done the job for many more years. is your philosophy and take on making sure that knowledge transfer is happening?
AS: I think it’s major challenge that I don’t know that everyone will sort have a solution for. I think about that all the time. We a very distributed workforce at Vimeo. We have people in over eight countries. My executive is entirely distributed. So I’ve really realized the benefits of being to have a distributed workforce and being able to attract talent and just more inclusive. On the flip side, there’s definitely, I think, lack of the same kinds of learning opportunities and mentorship, for the youngest folks that are entering the workforce. So think it’s a challenge. One of the approaches that we’ve been taking, and what’s sort of nice, is we’re it at the top. So if my entire executive team is distributed, that means I have learn how to provide real-time feedback, mentorship and development for a whole set new executives who have just joined. We have sort of changed up the executive team almost entirely the last twelve months. So I’ve had to deal with the same challenges. we’ve had to literally — we call it our operating system — we’ve had design an operating system, as an executive team, for we’re going to work together in that environment. How do share real-time feedback? How do we create the right communication loops? And so think, from my perspective, it’s more we have to be able to do it ourselves and model and then, I think it’s a more proven mechanism young people. I will say, like many companies … do believe that in-person collaboration is really important for learning. We do have — bring people into an office. If you’re remote, we ask folks to come in spend time in a room with their team, do activities, all of those things. I don’t think they go away, nor do I think they should. But, know, candidly, it’s an area that I don’t think we’ve figured out perfectly and I think it’s really critical as leaders, we do that, so that this next generation is able to get the same growth opportunities we all had.
SM: Well, and it’s interesting — the that you mentioned at the very beginning of our conversation, around video, can really helpful there. I’ve heard of a number of organizations that have really encouraged young people to present, as a way of having go out and find the information they need. And then, because we video tools available to us now, you know, they have an to share their ideas with a large group of people, first, kind of going through the fact-finding and the research, and then sharing their ideas. In earlier comment, you talked a little bit about mental illness and different things that people are bringing to work, whether is, you know, exhaustion, burnout. During the Black Lives Matter protests, we had a lot people coming to the office feeling trauma, and feeling really issues bubble to the surface. I’m wondering if you can share a little bit about how you with this increasing personal — you know, when people bring their whole selves the office, which we encourage, sometimes, they bring things, parts of themselves that challenging.
AS: Yeah … I’ve always thought the responsibility of a leader is to empower people do their best work and the responsibility of a company to empower our people to do their best work. And so, course, we have a real role to play in supporting things like mental-health issues burnout. And, you know, the way I think, like companies, the way we initially probably sought to do that more, you know, you’re seeing a problem and you’re reacting by trying to provide mental-health or support or time off. And, I think — and empathy, just empathy. think that’s really important. And I always say, to many of our managers … just care. If we just care, a lot of things easier. You don’t have to design a hundred mechanisms if you have the right people in place who care. At the time, I will say what we’re realizing now, in sort of this next phase, is that’s a reactive approach and actually the root cause — we can control at Vimeo — the root cause of a of stress and burnout is sometimes people either don’t have enough … focus, we’re asking people do too many things or they don’t feel like they’re in doing those things. And that, I think, is actually where should be spending more time — is how do we actually set the prioritization and focus. There’s some issue there, right? There’s a root cause there that’s a “Oh, I like I’m stressed because there’s too much going on. I don’t equipped to solve it.” Then, we should get into the “What is the there, and do we need to do things differently?” And, you know, one of our at Vimeo this year was “Do less, better.”
SM: As the economy starts to, maybe, sideways, do you think that there are going to stakeholders who say, you know, “Out with all of this touchy-feely, the workplace-as-a-family stuff. Where my results?”
AS: Absolutely. I think the pendulum has already swung clearly. I mean, I work in SAS, software as service, so we already went from “growth at all cost” to “profitability,” you know, pendulum swing. perspective on this — and it hasn’t changed — I the best leaders and cultures deliver results and treat well. And I actually think, if you treat people well, with kindness empathy, you will get better results. And so, you know, for me, I think what I observed over last few years is — that part, I think, hasn’t and shouldn’t change. There were, I think, a lot of times when companies, we things because maybe it was lip service or we felt pressured. And that’s going to be sustainable. But that’s not what — ultimately, that’s not what people need, in any case. So, know, I sort of see it as — the way channel how you are caring towards your employees and you are empathetic, always should be in service of people do their best work, which will deliver results, which will be good for bottom line. And you have to believe that. You have to be to that and if you use that consistently in your decision-making, it not be a trade-off. These are not mutually exclusive things.
SM: Anjali, how have you been taking care of yourself this period of tremendous turmoil and change, but also growth? You mentioned just had a baby. There’s a lot on your shoulders. How, a leader, do you practice some self-care or how do you make sure that you’re getting the balance need to be the most effective leader you can be?
AS: I think — recently, the I use a lot to myself is “two things can be true, both can be true.” I say a lot. And for me, I think of it as, like, “This job is hard, and it’s gotten harder.” We went at the height of the pandemic and last year, volatility has been tremendous. You know, we’re obviously going a ton with post-pandemic, we have a team in Ukraine going a war — all these things that have happened. so, it’s a hard job, and it’s an incredibly privileged job. It’s a gift, right? And so, think for me, it’s sort of acknowledging both of those has helped me a lot. The way I’ve tried to kind of lead, has — it’s always been this way, which is, for me, it’s have to have passion. I have to have passion. I have believe so deeply that what Vimeo is doing is and matters for the world. And if I have passion, I have energy and then will — I can kind of move through anything. I have to find joy my team. I feel like, especially in hard times, I back at my career and actually, some of my most fulfilling times in work were when — the hardest business situations. But it’s because it brought a group of people together on one team, and so I think that’s been, you know, a really part of it. And then, yeah, like, you have to be a little selfish sometimes, and take care yourself. And I am really fortunate. I think I have a great network around me and I do … My husband and I have a deal, where on Sundays, I for a couple of hours. I just disappear and I walk around the city and I to my music and do whatever I need to do, and that’s important.
SM: So you talked about how hybrid work is going to look very different the future than how we describe it today. It’s in office a couple of days, work from home couple of other days. Tell us a little bit more what you could potentially see that evolving into.
AS: think the idea of an office as a time and place goes away. And I think it’s really going to be people going to want to work from anywhere, anywhere in the world. Even the concept where you’re located is going to change. And then the idea of like “I’m going to on this time zone” or “I’m going to attend this meeting that’s on this date” — I think that’s going to away. And I think what you’re going to find more and more work, particularly from knowledge workers, is going be done anywhere, anytime. Communication and collaboration will happen asynchronously and we be using tools and technology — whether it’s video, it’s AI — to basically enable that at scale many people, anywhere in the world. And then I think leadership, leaders are going to look different. I think it’s going to require — if you think about the skill set be a global CEO 30 years ago versus what will require now — I think in the future … skill set is going to be like, “How do you communicate diverse, global audiences and employees across time zones in a way is effective, that provides context and alignment at scale? How you organize programs, whether it’s compensation, whether it’s, you know, training?” All of that going to look very different. But I think the ultimate thing you’ll see is … there were these constraints that we’ve lived with, whether was time or place or budget, in some cases. And I think those constraints are to go away. And the promise is that if we are flexible and smart we use technology in the right way, that we’ll come away a much more evolved and efficient workforce.
SM: Well, I think you just showed us some of passion that you’ve talked about as being the thing that gives you energy to that organization of 1,300 people worldwide. Anjali, thank you much for being here today.
AS: Thank you. This great.