Stephanie Mehta: Welcome, Anjali. I’m so glad you’re here with today.
Anjali Sud: Thank you, it is great to be here.
SM: At Vimeo, you lead a workforce 1,300 people worldwide — you have creatives, you have people, you have technologists. So I’m going to start with a really easy question: was it like to manage this diverse workforce through a global pandemic, a racial and a very fraught return to office?
AS: Oh, it was a breeze, Stephanie. No, was really challenging. You know, I think the only constant has change. And as a leader, you obviously — you have a workforce that’s looking for certainty, they’re looking to control what’s happening around them. And I think we all found, as leaders, no matter what company were … responsible for, was that you couldn’t offer certainty, you couldn’t always control the environment and the things around you. And so, know, for me, it was really about agility. How do we stay flexible as team? How do we communicate in real time and keep informed as we try and move through things? And then, just how do we lead with more humanity? You know, Vimeo, one of the things I’ve really learned over the last years is we each experience the world so differently. We have employees are remote. We have an incredible team in Ukraine … who are on the front lines, who are literally war. On the other hand, you have people in different parts of the world who are experiencing mental-health or burnout, and so I think it was really just — the hardest part was not being able to give certainty, not being able to just apply a one-size-fits-all rule for everyone. But ultimately think it forced us, as a company, to more trust, because to be agile and flexible, and lead with humanity, you have to trust each other. And so, I’m sort of optimistic that actually we’re from this time with a culture that is more flexible and nimble, also, hopefully, has more trust.
SM: Can you give an example something that you put into place, perhaps during the pandemic, to enhance communications or build or create a greater sense of community or even to communicate that there no certainty, that is a muscle that you think you’ll to use in the organization far into the future?
AS: There’s a of things that we did. One — and we a video platform, so I obviously have to talk about video, but I mean this sincerely — of the hardest parts, when you’re all sort of disparate, is you lose and you lose nuance when you communicate. And we did make a concerted effort to move away from and chat, text-based communication, as much as possible, and try, particularly for our leadership team, when we were communicating, to do it with your face, and hands and your body and your emotions. And we did through live streaming a lot of communications, recording a lot of videos. We sent asynchronous video messages. So send … I record my screen and just send note out to people. Every new hire does a video welcome and introduce themselves. A lot of our meetings we’ve actually replaced with just video presentations. And actually, what that really did was the humanity and the context to come through and I think that helped us a lot to, of, stay close. So that was one, I think, important thing.
Another important thing is, I think, just creating mechanisms to it easier to talk about when things aren’t working, because a critical part being agile is recognizing we have an area that isn’t working. so one of the things that we do at Vimeo is we — I do this in all of my town halls, do it in a lot of meetings — is always talk what’s working, what are our top three things, and what isn’t working — yet. And we’ve of created, I think, a framework that sort of takes the away from talking about what’s not working. And when make that normalized and comfortable for people, I feel like it’s allowed to be more open, as an organization, about what do need to change, what do we need to pivot. And of those, being more video-first in our communication and being transparent and normalizing what’s not working, I think has been really helpful, and certainly we’re carrying forward.
SM: I love that advice about being video-first. So many our members of our workforce live in a video world. They’re used to video as a means of communication. brings me to my next question. You’ve talked about how the organization has changed. How do you see workforce changing? What is different with the young millennials, even, now, the first wave of Gen Z coming into the workplace?
AS: think it’s incredibly different. And, you know, one of the things we think about at Vimeo a lot is a of the mechanisms and communication modes that we still today, they’re really antiquated. They were designed for a totally different environment and a totally different generation. I see a lot of differences. One of them, I think, is line between your personal life and work life is blending. … If you think about your personal life — look at TikTok. This is used to consuming content, learning, engaging, in a very specific way. if they then have to come to work and be trained on a job, read a 300-page manual? Like, it’s not to happen, right? Or if you miss the meeting, and you have watch the Zoom recording of a three-hour meeting — that’s not going to happen. And so I think that there definitely sort of this — you know, we talk about the “consumerization of enterprise.” Those are fancy words for saying the way … we communicate and interact in our lives is going to translate to work. And so I think that’s an area of opportunity.
The other thing I from sort of the generation, the newest generation coming the workforce, is sort of, of course mission-driven, but I think there’s a desire to understand the “why” behind things. And one of our communication is we never talk about the “what” without the “why.” And I think there’s a desire to — the that, well, there’s a hierarchy, or “My boss told me that is what we’re going to do” or — that, I think, is increasingly moving away, people, they don’t just want to do something because someone formal authority told them to do it. They want to do it they understand why it matters, why it ties to the mission. And I think that forces leaders to really bring more of the “why” how we communicate and motivate people.
So those are two of things I see, and then, you know, the third I think is just flexibility. I think — this is true of all of us, but particularly the younger — I think they’re looking for flexibility and they want and choices. And it’s not always easy and feasible to provide ultimate flexibility, this is where I try and orient it more to agility. How can we have approaches principles and be committed to things, but also know when to question, and when to pivot?
SM: Yeah. Anjali, can you share a few of ways that you at Vimeo have tried to really be proactive when it comes addressing or understanding what your next generation of employees are going to want, either in terms of or in terms of benefits or in terms of flexibility? there programs or processes you’ve put in place that really speak to this big change we’re seeing in terms of values from the workforce?
AS: Firstly, course, it’s all about listening, right? And I think, like many organizations, the way we’ve tried listen and understand our workforce is very similar: it’s Q As and engagement surveys, and things like that. And some of the things that we’ve done, we have people and culture NPS, net promoter score, the same way have for our users, for our internal teams. But I would one of the things that we’ve really tried to is appreciate that when we get inputs from our employees, 1,300 … you can’t look at the averages. You can’t look it all in totality and try and pull out an obvious “Oh, is how everybody’s feeling.” Because what you actually — when you really dig it and truly listen and do focus groups and talk to people — what you’ll find actually there’s very different experiences and desires among your employees. And so, I think for us, what we’ve really just tried do is have a bunch of different listening mechanisms and then resist the to conveniently pull, like, “Oh, this is what everyone’s feeling, let’s just do this as the action.” And it’s hard, and we’re still kind figuring it out, but I will tell you, some of the things that we’ve heard employees have changed our approach to hybrid work or travel or even things like our approach to compensation or approach to DE and I. So I think it’s more just I said, that agile listening, constantly really understanding what’s happening, but treating everything as, like, an average or the same. And for us, it’s particularly stark because we have offices and teams in so many countries and the differences, they’re substantial. They’re really substantial, about the way we different things. And we used to have a very, of, “One Vimeo” global approach in the name of consistency fairness, and what we found is we have to be more localized. We really do. We have design mechanisms to support our teams in a very different way, because their experiences and the world around is quite different.
So I think that’s definitely been one, I will tell you, it has involved a lot — as an executive team and leadership team — it’s a lot of trying things, it not working, and changing them. And a great example our Q and A. I feel like every leader I know has a perspective on whether they open Q and A or anonymous Q and A, real-time Q and A. We’ve changed our approach there multiple times, I know we will again, because we’re still figuring out the way to listen and have a dialogue with a very workforce.
SM: I want to stay on newcomers to the for just another moment, because another thing I hear CEOs of my generation and older is a concern making sure that we are not just providing our youngest employees with the and the purpose that they need, but also the training the wisdom that comes, oftentimes, from being in close proximity to mentor or to somebody who’s done the job for many more years. What is your and take on making sure that knowledge transfer is happening?
AS: I it’s a major challenge that I don’t know that everyone will of have a solution for. I think about that the time. We have a very distributed workforce at Vimeo. We have people over eight countries. My executive team is entirely distributed. So I’ve really the benefits of being able to have a distributed and being able to attract talent and just be inclusive. On the flip side, there’s definitely, I think, a of the same kinds of learning opportunities and mentorship, particularly for the folks that are entering the workforce. So I think it’s a challenge. One of the that we’ve been taking, and what’s sort of nice, is we’re modeling it at the top. if my entire executive team is distributed, that means I have to learn how to provide real-time feedback, and development for a whole set of new executives have just joined. We have sort of changed up the executive team almost entirely in the twelve months. So I’ve had to deal with the same challenges. And we’ve had literally — we call it our operating system — we’ve to design an operating system, as an executive team, how we’re going to work together in that environment. How do share real-time feedback? How do we create the right communication loops? And so think, from my perspective, it’s more we have to be able to do it ourselves and model it then, I think it’s a more proven mechanism for people. I will say, like many companies … I do that in-person collaboration is really important for learning. We do — we bring people into an office. If you’re remote, we ask folks to come and spend time in a room with their team, social activities, all of those things. I don’t think will go away, nor do I think they should. But, you know, candidly, it’s area that I don’t think we’ve really figured out perfectly and I it’s really critical that as leaders, we do that, that this next generation is able to get the same growth opportunities that we all had.
SM: Well, it’s interesting — the tools that you mentioned at the very beginning our conversation, around video, can be really helpful there. I’ve heard a number of organizations that have really encouraged their people to present, as a way of having to go out and the information they need. And then, because we have video tools available to now, you know, they have an opportunity to share their with a large group of people, but first, kind of going through the fact-finding the research, and then sharing their ideas. In an comment, you talked a little bit about mental illness and the things that people are bringing to work, whether it is, you know, exhaustion, burnout. During the Black Matter protests, we had a lot of people coming to the office feeling trauma, and feeling really issues bubble to the surface. I’m wondering if you can a little bit about how you deal with this increasing — you know, when people bring their whole selves to the office, we encourage, sometimes, they bring things, parts of themselves are challenging.
AS: Yeah … I’ve always thought the of a leader is to empower people to do their best work and the responsibility of a is to empower our people to do their best work. so, of course, we have a real role to play in supporting like mental-health issues or burnout. And, you know, the way think, like many companies, the way we initially probably sought to that was more, you know, you’re seeing a problem you’re reacting by trying to provide mental-health resources or support or off. And, I think — and empathy, just empathy. I think that’s really important. And I say, to so many of our managers … just care. If we care, a lot of things get easier. You don’t have to design a hundred mechanisms if just have the right people in place who care. the same time, I will say what we’re realizing now, in sort of this phase, is that that’s a reactive approach and actually the root cause — that can control at Vimeo — the root cause of a lot of stress and burnout is sometimes people don’t have enough … focus, we’re asking people to do too many or they don’t feel like they’re supported in doing those things. And that, I think, is actually we should be spending more time — is how do we actually the right prioritization and focus. There’s some issue there, right? There’s a root cause that’s a “Oh, I feel like I’m stressed because there’s too much on. I don’t feel equipped to solve it.” Then, we should into the “What is the detail there, and do we need to things differently?” And, you know, one of our themes Vimeo this year was “Do less, better.”
SM: As the starts to, maybe, move sideways, do you think that there are going to stakeholders who say, you know, “Out with all of this touchy-feely, workplace-as-a-family stuff. Where are my results?”
AS: Absolutely. I the pendulum has already swung pretty clearly. I mean, I work SAS, software as a service, so we already went from “growth at all cost” to “profitability,” know, pendulum swing. My perspective on this — and hasn’t changed — I think the best leaders and cultures deliver results treat people well. And I actually think, if you treat people well, with kindness and empathy, you get better results. And so, you know, for me, I think what I observed over last few years is — that part, I think, hasn’t changed shouldn’t change. There were, I think, a lot of when companies, we did things because maybe it was lip service or felt pressured. And that’s not going to be sustainable. But that’s not what — ultimately, that’s not what need, in any case. So, you know, I sort of it as — the way you channel how you are caring towards your employees how you are empathetic, always should be in service of helping do their best work, which will deliver results, which be good for the bottom line. And you have believe that. You have to be committed to that and if you use that in your decision-making, it should not be a trade-off. These are not mutually exclusive things.
SM: Anjali, how you been taking care of yourself during this period of tremendous turmoil change, but also growth? You mentioned you just had baby. There’s a lot on your shoulders. How, as a leader, you practice some self-care or how do you make sure that you’re the balance you need to be the most effective leader can be?
AS: I think — recently, the phrase I use a lot to is “two things can be true, both can be true.” say this a lot. And for me, I think it as, like, “This job is hard, and it’s harder.” We went public at the height of the pandemic last year, market volatility has been tremendous. You know, we’re obviously going through ton with post-pandemic, we have a team in Ukraine going through a — all these things that have happened. And so, it’s a hard job, and it’s an privileged job. It’s a gift, right? And so, I think me, it’s sort of acknowledging both of those things has me a lot. The way I’ve tried to kind lead, has been — it’s always been this way, which is, for me, it’s I have to passion. I have to have passion. I have to so deeply that what Vimeo is doing is important matters for the world. And if I have passion, I have energy then I will — I can kind of move anything. I have to find joy in my team. I feel like, especially hard times, I look back at my career and actually, of my most fulfilling times in work were when — in the business situations. But it’s because it brought a group of people together all one team, and so I think that’s been, you know, a really big of it. And then, yeah, like, you have to be a little selfish sometimes, and care of yourself. And I am really fortunate. I think I a great support network around me and I do … My husband and I a deal, where on Sundays, I disappear for a couple of hours. I just disappear and I walk the city and I listen to my music and do I need to do, and that’s really important.
SM: So talked about how hybrid work is going to look very different the future than how we describe it today. It’s basically in office a of days, work from home a couple of other days. Tell us a little bit more what you could potentially see that evolving into.
AS: think the idea of an office as a time and place goes away. And I think it’s really going to be are going to want to work from anywhere, anywhere the world. Even the concept of where you’re located is to change. And then the idea of like “I’m going work on this time zone” or “I’m going to attend this meeting that’s on this date” — I think that’s going to go away. And think what you’re going to find is more and work, particularly from knowledge workers, is going to be anywhere, anytime. Communication and collaboration will happen asynchronously and will be using tools and technology — whether it’s video, it’s AI — to basically enable that at scale among many people, anywhere the world. And then I think leadership, leaders are going to look different. Because think it’s going to require — if you think about the skill set to be a global 30 years ago versus what that will require now — think in the future … the skill set is to be like, “How do you communicate with diverse, global audiences and employees time zones in a way that is effective, that provides context and alignment at scale? do you organize programs, whether it’s compensation, whether it’s, you know, training?” of that is going to look very different. But think the ultimate thing you’ll see is just … there were these constraints that we’ve with, whether it was time or place or budget, in some cases. And I think those are going to go away. And the promise is that if we are flexible and smart and we use in the right way, that we’ll actually come away a much more and efficient workforce.
SM: Well, I think you just us some of the passion that you’ve talked about being the thing that gives you energy to lead that organization of 1,300 people worldwide. Anjali, you so much for being here today.
AS: Thank you. This great.