Stephanie Mehta: Welcome, Anjali. I’m so glad you’re here with today.
Anjali Sud: Thank you, it is great to be here.
SM: At Vimeo, you lead workforce of 1,300 people worldwide — you have creatives, you have finance people, you technologists. So I’m going to start with a really easy question: was it like to manage this diverse workforce through global pandemic, a racial reckoning and a very fraught return office?
AS: Oh, it was a breeze, Stephanie. No, it was challenging. You know, I think the only constant has change. And as a leader, you obviously — you have a workforce that’s looking for certainty, they’re looking to control what’s happening around them. And I think what we all found, as leaders, matter what company you were … responsible for, was that you couldn’t offer certainty, you couldn’t always control the environment and the things you. And so, you know, for me, it was really about agility. do we stay flexible as a team? How do we communicate in real and keep people informed as we try and move things? And then, also just how do we lead with more humanity? You know, for Vimeo, one of things I’ve really learned over the last few years is we each experience world so differently. We have employees who are remote. have an incredible team in Ukraine … employees who are the front lines, who are literally at war. On the other hand, you have people in different parts the world who are experiencing mental-health challenges or burnout, and I think it was really just — the hardest part was not being able to give certainty, not being able to just apply a one-size-fits-all rule for everyone. But I ultimately think it us, as a company, to build more trust, because be agile and flexible, and to lead with humanity, you have trust each other. And so, I’m sort of optimistic that actually we’re emerging from time with a culture that is more flexible and nimble, also, hopefully, has more trust.
SM: Can you give an of something that you put into place, perhaps during the pandemic, to enhance or build trust or create a greater sense of community even to communicate that there is no certainty, that is a that you think you’ll continue to use in the organization far into future?
AS: There’s a couple of things that we did. One — we are a video platform, so I obviously have to talk video, but I mean this sincerely — one of hardest parts, when you’re all sort of disparate, is you lose context and lose nuance when you communicate. And we did make a concerted to move away from email and chat, text-based communication, as much as possible, and actually try, particularly for leadership team, when we were communicating, to do it with your face, your hands and your body and your emotions. And we that through live streaming a lot of communications, recording a lot of videos. We sent video messages. So I send … I record my and just send a note out to people. Every new hire does a video to welcome and themselves. A lot of our meetings we’ve actually replaced with just quick presentations. And actually, what that really did was allow the humanity the context to come through and I think that helped us a lot to, of, stay close. So that was one, I think, really important thing.
Another important thing is, think, just creating mechanisms to make it easier to talk about when things aren’t working, a critical part of being agile is recognizing we an area that isn’t working. And so one of things that we do at Vimeo is we try — do this in all of my town halls, we do in a lot of meetings — is always talk about what’s working, what are our three things, and what isn’t working — yet. And we’ve of created, I think, a framework that sort of takes the away from talking about what’s not working. And when you make that normalized comfortable for people, I feel like it’s allowed us to be more open, an organization, about what do we need to change, what do we to pivot. And both of those, being more video-first in communication and being more transparent and normalizing what’s not working, I think has been really helpful, certainly something we’re carrying forward.
SM: I love that advice about video-first. So many of our members of our workforce live a video world. They’re used to video as a means of communication. Which brings me to my question. You’ve talked about how the organization has changed. do you see the workforce changing? What is different with the millennials, and even, now, the first wave of Gen Z coming into the workplace?
AS: I it’s incredibly different. And, you know, one of the that we think about at Vimeo a lot is a of the mechanisms and communication modes that we still today, they’re really antiquated. They were designed for a totally environment and a totally different generation. But I see lot of differences. One of them, I think, is the line between your life and work life is definitely blending. … If you about your personal life — look at TikTok. This generation is used consuming content, learning, engaging, in a very specific way. if they then have to come to work and to be trained on a job, read 300-page manual? Like, it’s not going to happen, right? Or if you miss meeting, and you have to watch the Zoom recording a three-hour meeting — that’s just not going to happen. And I think that there is definitely sort of this — you know, we about the “consumerization of enterprise.” Those are just fancy words for saying the way … we and interact in our personal lives is going to translate work. And so I definitely think that’s an area opportunity.
The other thing I see from sort of generation, the newest generation coming into the workforce, is sort of, of course mission-driven, but I there’s a desire to really understand the “why” behind things. And one of our communication is we never talk about the “what” without the “why.” And I think there’s a to — the idea that, well, there’s a hierarchy, or “My boss told me that this what we’re going to do” or — that, I think, increasingly moving away, and people, they don’t just want to do something because someone with formal authority them to do it. They want to do it because they understand why it matters, why ties to the mission. And I think that that leaders to really bring more of the “why” into we communicate and motivate people.
So those are two of the things see, and then, you know, the third I think is just flexibility. I think — this is true of all of us, but particularly younger generation — I think they’re looking for flexibility and want options and choices. And it’s not always easy and to provide ultimate flexibility, but this is where I try and orient it more agility. How can we have approaches and principles and be committed to things, also know when to question, and when to actually pivot?
SM: Yeah. Anjali, can you share a few examples of ways that at Vimeo have tried to really be proactive when it comes to addressing understanding what your next generation of employees are going to want, either in terms of purpose or terms of benefits or in terms of flexibility? Are there programs processes you’ve put in place that really speak to this big sea change we’re seeing in of values from the workforce?
AS: Firstly, of course, it’s all about listening, right? And think, like many organizations, the way we’ve tried to listen and understand workforce is very similar: it’s Q and As and engagement surveys, and things that. And some of the things that we’ve done, we have a people and culture NPS, net score, the same way we have for our users, for our teams. But I would say one of the things that we’ve really tried to do appreciate that when we get inputs from our employees, 1,300 … you can’t look at the averages. You can’t look at all in totality and try and pull out an obvious “Oh, this is how everybody’s feeling.” what you actually — when you really dig into it and truly listen and do focus and talk to people — what you’ll find is actually there’s very different experiences and among your employees. And so, I think for us, what we’ve really just tried do is have a bunch of different listening mechanisms and then the urge to conveniently pull, like, “Oh, this is what everyone’s feeling, let’s just this thing as the action.” And it’s hard, and we’re kind of figuring it out, but I will tell you, of the things that we’ve heard from employees have changed our approach hybrid work or travel or even things like our approach compensation or our approach to DE and I. So think it’s more just like I said, that agile listening, constantly understanding what’s happening, but not treating everything as, like, an or the same. And for us, it’s been particularly stark because we have and teams in so many different countries and the differences, they’re substantial. They’re really substantial, the way we solve different things. And we used have a very, sort of, “One Vimeo” global approach in the name of and fairness, and what we found is we have to be localized. We really do. We have to design mechanisms support our teams in a very different way, because their and the world around them is quite different.
So I think that’s definitely one, and I will tell you, it has involved lot of — as an executive team and leadership — it’s involved a lot of trying things, it not working, and changing them. a great example is our Q and A. I like every leader I know has a perspective on whether they do open and A or anonymous Q and A, or real-time Q and A. We’ve changed our approach there times, and I know we will again, because we’re still figuring out the right way to listen have a dialogue with a very diverse workforce.
SM: I want to stay on newcomers to workplace for just another moment, because another thing I hear from of my generation and older is a concern about making sure that we are just providing our youngest employees with the flexibility and the purpose that they need, also the training and the wisdom that comes, oftentimes, from being close proximity to a mentor or to somebody who’s done the job for many more years. What your philosophy and take on making sure that knowledge transfer happening?
AS: I think it’s a major challenge that I don’t know everyone will sort of have a solution for. I think that all the time. We have a very distributed workforce Vimeo. We have people in over eight countries. My team is entirely distributed. So I’ve really realized the benefits of being able have a distributed workforce and being able to attract and just be more inclusive. On the flip side, there’s definitely, I think, a lack of the kinds of learning opportunities and mentorship, particularly for the youngest folks that are entering the workforce. I think it’s a challenge. One of the approaches that we’ve been taking, and what’s of nice, is we’re modeling it at the top. So if my entire team is distributed, that means I have to learn to provide real-time feedback, mentorship and development for a set of new executives who have just joined. We have sort of changed up executive team almost entirely in the last twelve months. So I’ve had to deal with same challenges. And we’ve had to literally — we call it operating system — we’ve had to design an operating system, as an executive team, for how we’re to work together in that environment. How do we real-time feedback? How do we create the right communication loops? so I think, from my perspective, it’s more we have to be able to do it ourselves and it and then, I think it’s a more proven mechanism young people. I will say, like many companies … I believe that in-person collaboration is really important for learning. do have — we bring people into an office. you’re remote, we ask folks to come in and spend time in a room their team, do social activities, all of those things. I don’t think they will go away, nor I think they should. But, you know, candidly, it’s an area that I don’t think we’ve really out perfectly and I think it’s really critical that as leaders, do that, so that this next generation is able to get the same opportunities that we all had.
SM: Well, and it’s interesting — the tools you mentioned at the very beginning of our conversation, around video, can be really there. I’ve heard of a number of organizations that have really their young people to present, as a way of having to go and find the information they need. And then, because we video tools available to us now, you know, they have an opportunity to share their ideas a large group of people, but first, kind of going through the fact-finding and the research, and sharing their ideas. In an earlier comment, you talked a little bit about illness and the different things that people are bringing work, whether it is, you know, exhaustion, burnout. During Black Lives Matter protests, we had a lot of people coming to the feeling trauma, and feeling really personal issues bubble to the surface. I’m wondering if you share a little bit about how you deal with this increasing personal — you know, when people their whole selves to the office, which we encourage, sometimes, they bring things, of themselves that are challenging.
AS: Yeah … I’ve thought the responsibility of a leader is to empower to do their best work and the responsibility of a company to empower our people to do their best work. so, of course, we have a real role to in supporting things like mental-health issues or burnout. And, you know, the way I think, many companies, the way we initially probably sought to do that more, you know, you’re seeing a problem and you’re by trying to provide mental-health resources or support or off. And, I think — and empathy, just empathy. think that’s really important. And I always say, to so many our managers … just care. If we just care, a lot of things get easier. You don’t have design a hundred mechanisms if you just have the right people in place who care. the same time, I will say what we’re realizing now, in sort of this next phase, is that that’s reactive approach and actually the root cause — that we can control at — the root cause of a lot of stress and burnout is sometimes either don’t have enough … focus, we’re asking people to do many things or they don’t feel like they’re supported doing those things. And that, I think, is actually where we should spending more time — is how do we actually set the prioritization and focus. There’s some issue there, right? There’s root cause there that’s a “Oh, I feel like I’m stressed because there’s much going on. I don’t feel equipped to solve it.” Then, we should into the “What is the detail there, and do we need to do differently?” And, you know, one of our themes at this year was “Do less, better.”
SM: As the economy to, maybe, move sideways, do you think that there are going to be stakeholders say, you know, “Out with all of this touchy-feely, the workplace-as-a-family stuff. Where are my results?”
AS: Absolutely. think the pendulum has already swung pretty clearly. I mean, I in SAS, software as a service, so we already went from “growth at all cost” “profitability,” you know, pendulum swing. My perspective on this — and it hasn’t changed — I think the best and cultures deliver results and treat people well. And I think, if you treat people well, with kindness and empathy, will get better results. And so, you know, for me, I think I observed over the last few years is — part, I think, hasn’t changed and shouldn’t change. There were, I think, a of times when companies, we did things because maybe was lip service or we felt pressured. And that’s not to be sustainable. But that’s not what — ultimately, that’s what people need, in any case. So, you know, sort of see it as — the way you channel how you are caring towards employees and how you are empathetic, always should be in of helping people do their best work, which will deliver results, will be good for the bottom line. And you have to believe that. You have be committed to that and if you use that consistently your decision-making, it should not be a trade-off. These are not mutually exclusive things.
SM: Anjali, have you been taking care of yourself during this period of turmoil and change, but also growth? You mentioned you just had a baby. There’s lot on your shoulders. How, as a leader, do you practice some self-care how do you make sure that you’re getting the balance you need to be the most leader you can be?
AS: I think — recently, the phrase use a lot to myself is “two things can true, both can be true.” I say this a lot. And me, I think of it as, like, “This job hard, and it’s gotten harder.” We went public at the of the pandemic and last year, market volatility has been tremendous. You know, we’re obviously going through ton with post-pandemic, we have a team in Ukraine going a war — all these things that have happened. so, it’s a hard job, and it’s an incredibly privileged job. It’s a gift, right? And so, think for me, it’s sort of acknowledging both of those things has helped a lot. The way I’ve tried to kind of lead, been — it’s always been this way, which is, me, it’s I have to have passion. I have to have passion. I to believe so deeply that what Vimeo is doing is important and for the world. And if I have passion, I have energy and then will — I can kind of move through anything. I have to joy in my team. I feel like, especially in hard times, I look back at career and actually, some of my most fulfilling times in work were — in the hardest business situations. But it’s because it brought group of people together all on one team, and so I think that’s been, you know, really big part of it. And then, yeah, like, you have to a little selfish sometimes, and take care of yourself. And I am fortunate. I think I have a great support network around and I do … My husband and I have a deal, where Sundays, I disappear for a couple of hours. I just and I walk around the city and I listen to my music and do I need to do, and that’s really important.
SM: So you talked how hybrid work is going to look very different in the future than how we it today. It’s basically in office a couple of days, from home a couple of other days. Tell us a little bit more about what could potentially see that evolving into.
AS: I think the idea of an office a time and place completely goes away. And I think it’s really going to be people are to want to work from anywhere, anywhere in the world. Even the concept of where you’re located going to change. And then the idea of like “I’m to work on this time zone” or “I’m going to attend this meeting that’s on this date” — I think that’s going to go away. And I think what you’re going find is more and more work, particularly from knowledge workers, is to be done anywhere, anytime. Communication and collaboration will asynchronously and we will be using tools and technology — it’s video, whether it’s AI — to basically enable at scale among many people, anywhere in the world. then I think leadership, leaders are going to look different. Because I it’s going to require — if you think about the skill set to be a global CEO 30 ago versus what that will require now — I think in the future … the set is going to be like, “How do you communicate diverse, global audiences and employees across time zones in a way that effective, that provides context and alignment at scale? How do you organize programs, whether it’s compensation, whether it’s, know, training?” All of that is going to look very different. I think the ultimate thing you’ll see is just … there were these constraints that we’ve with, whether it was time or place or budget, some cases. And I think those constraints are going go away. And the promise is that if we are flexible smart and we use technology in the right way, that we’ll actually come away a much more evolved efficient workforce.
SM: Well, I think you just showed us some of the passion you’ve talked about as being the thing that gives energy to lead that organization of 1,300 people worldwide. Anjali, you so much for being here today.
AS: Thank you. This great.