Stephanie Mehta: Welcome, Anjali. I’m so you’re here with us today.
Anjali Sud: Thank you, it great to be here.
SM: At Vimeo, you lead a workforce of 1,300 people — you have creatives, you have finance people, you technologists. So I’m going to start with a really question: what was it like to manage this diverse through a global pandemic, a racial reckoning and a very fraught return to office?
AS: Oh, was a breeze, Stephanie. No, it was really challenging. You know, I think the constant has been change. And as a leader, you obviously — you have workforce that’s looking for certainty, and they’re looking to what’s happening around them. And I think what we all found, as leaders, no matter what you were … responsible for, was that you couldn’t offer certainty, and couldn’t always control the environment and the things around you. And so, know, for me, it was really about agility. How do we stay as a team? How do we communicate in real time and keep informed as we try and move through things? And then, also just how do we lead more humanity? You know, for Vimeo, one of the things I’ve really learned the last few years is we each experience the world so differently. We have who are remote. We have an incredible team in Ukraine … employees are on the front lines, who are literally at war. the other hand, you have people in different parts of world who are experiencing mental-health challenges or burnout, and so I it was really just — the hardest part was being able to give everyone certainty, not being able to just apply a one-size-fits-all for everyone. But I ultimately think it forced us, a company, to build more trust, because to be and flexible, and to lead with humanity, you have to trust each other. And so, I’m of optimistic that actually we’re emerging from this time with culture that is more flexible and nimble, and also, hopefully, has trust.
SM: Can you give an example of something that you into place, perhaps during the pandemic, to enhance communications or build or create a greater sense of community or even to that there is no certainty, that is a muscle that you think you’ll continue to use in organization far into the future?
AS: There’s a couple of that we did. One — and we are a video platform, so I obviously have to talk video, but I mean this sincerely — one of the hardest parts, when you’re sort of disparate, is you lose context and you lose nuance you communicate. And we did make a concerted effort move away from email and chat, text-based communication, as as possible, and actually try, particularly for our leadership team, when we communicating, to do it with your face, and your hands your body and your emotions. And we did that through live streaming a lot of communications, a lot of videos. We sent asynchronous video messages. So I … I record my screen and just send a note out to people. Every new does a video to welcome and introduce themselves. A of our meetings we’ve actually replaced with just quick video presentations. And actually, what that really did was the humanity and the context to come through and think that helped us a lot to, kind of, close. So that was one, I think, really important thing.
Another thing is, I think, just creating mechanisms to make easier to talk about when things aren’t working, because a critical part of being agile is recognizing have an area that isn’t working. And so one of the things we do at Vimeo is we try — I do this in of my town halls, we do it in a lot meetings — is always talk about what’s working, what are our top things, and what isn’t working — yet. And we’ve kind created, I think, a framework that sort of takes stigma away from talking about what’s not working. And you make that normalized and comfortable for people, I feel it’s allowed us to be more open, as an organization, about what do we need to change, what we need to pivot. And both of those, being more video-first in our and being more transparent and normalizing what’s not working, I has been really helpful, and certainly something we’re carrying forward.
SM: love that advice about being video-first. So many of our members of workforce live in a video world. They’re used to video as means of communication. Which brings me to my next question. You’ve talked about how the has changed. How do you see the workforce changing? is different with the young millennials, and even, now, the first wave of Z coming into the workplace?
AS: I think it’s different. And, you know, one of the things that we think about at Vimeo a is a lot of the mechanisms and communication modes we still use today, they’re really antiquated. They were for a totally different environment and a totally different generation. But I see lot of differences. One of them, I think, is line between your personal life and work life is blending. … If you think about your personal life — at TikTok. This generation is used to consuming content, learning, engaging, in a very specific way. And they then have to come to work and to trained on a job, read a 300-page manual? Like, it’s going to happen, right? Or if you miss the meeting, and have to watch the Zoom recording of a three-hour meeting — that’s just going to happen. And so I think that there is definitely sort of this — you know, we about the “consumerization of enterprise.” Those are just fancy words saying the way … we communicate and interact in personal lives is going to translate to work. And I definitely think that’s an area of opportunity.
The other thing I from sort of the generation, the newest generation coming the workforce, is sort of, of course mission-driven, but think there’s a desire to really understand the “why” behind things. And one of our communication mantras is never talk about the “what” without the “why.” And I think there’s a desire to — idea that, well, there’s a hierarchy, or “My boss told me that this what we’re going to do” or — that, I think, increasingly moving away, and people, they don’t just want to do something because someone with formal told them to do it. They want to do it because they understand why it matters, why it ties the mission. And I think that that forces leaders to really bring more of “why” into how we communicate and motivate people.
So those are of the things I see, and then, you know, the third I think just flexibility. I think — and this is true of all of us, but particularly the generation — I think they’re looking for flexibility and they options and choices. And it’s not always easy and feasible to provide ultimate flexibility, this is where I try and orient it more to agility. How we have approaches and principles and be committed to things, but also when to question, and when to actually pivot?
SM: Yeah. Anjali, can you share a few examples of ways you at Vimeo have tried to really be proactive when it comes to or understanding what your next generation of employees are to want, either in terms of purpose or in terms of benefits in terms of flexibility? Are there programs or processes you’ve put in that really speak to this big sea change we’re seeing terms of values from the workforce?
AS: Firstly, of course, it’s all listening, right? And I think, like many organizations, the way we’ve tried to listen and understand workforce is very similar: it’s Q and As and surveys, and things like that. And some of the that we’ve done, we have a people and culture NPS, net promoter score, the same way we have our users, for our internal teams. But I would say one of the that we’ve really tried to do is appreciate that we get inputs from our employees, 1,300 employees … can’t look at the averages. You can’t look at it in totality and try and pull out an obvious “Oh, is how everybody’s feeling.” Because what you actually — you really dig into it and truly listen and do focus groups and talk people — what you’ll find is actually there’s very different experiences desires among your employees. And so, I think for us, what we’ve really just tried to do have a bunch of different listening mechanisms and then resist urge to conveniently pull, like, “Oh, this is what everyone’s feeling, let’s do this thing as the action.” And it’s hard, we’re still kind of figuring it out, but I will you, some of the things that we’ve heard from employees changed our approach to hybrid work or travel or even things like our approach to compensation our approach to DE and I. So I think it’s more just I said, that agile listening, constantly really understanding what’s happening, but not treating everything as, like, an or the same. And for us, it’s been particularly stark we have offices and teams in so many different countries and differences, they’re substantial. They’re really substantial, about the way we solve things. And we used to have a very, sort of, “One Vimeo” global approach in the name consistency and fairness, and what we found is we have to be localized. We really do. We have to design mechanisms to support our in a very different way, because their experiences and the world them is quite different.
So I think that’s definitely been one, and I will tell you, it involved a lot of — as an executive team and leadership team — it’s a lot of trying things, it not working, and them. And a great example is our Q and A. I feel like every I know has a perspective on whether they do open and A or anonymous Q and A, or real-time Q and A. We’ve changed our there multiple times, and I know we will again, we’re still figuring out the right way to listen and a dialogue with a very diverse workforce.
SM: I want to stay on newcomers to the for just another moment, because another thing I hear from CEOs of my and older is a concern about making sure that we not just providing our youngest employees with the flexibility the purpose that they need, but also the training the wisdom that comes, oftentimes, from being in close to a mentor or to somebody who’s done the job many more years. What is your philosophy and take on making sure that knowledge is happening?
AS: I think it’s a major challenge that I don’t know that will sort of have a solution for. I think about all the time. We have a very distributed workforce Vimeo. We have people in over eight countries. My team is entirely distributed. So I’ve really realized the of being able to have a distributed workforce and being to attract talent and just be more inclusive. On flip side, there’s definitely, I think, a lack of the same kinds learning opportunities and mentorship, particularly for the youngest folks that entering the workforce. So I think it’s a challenge. of the approaches that we’ve been taking, and what’s sort nice, is we’re modeling it at the top. So if my executive team is distributed, that means I have to how to provide real-time feedback, mentorship and development for a whole set of new executives have just joined. We have sort of changed up executive team almost entirely in the last twelve months. So I’ve had to deal the same challenges. And we’ve had to literally — we call it our operating system — we’ve to design an operating system, as an executive team, for how we’re to work together in that environment. How do we share real-time feedback? How do we create right communication loops? And so I think, from my perspective, it’s more have to be able to do it ourselves and it and then, I think it’s a more proven for young people. I will say, like many companies … I believe that in-person collaboration is really important for learning. We do have — we bring people into office. If you’re remote, we ask folks to come in and time in a room with their team, do social activities, all of those things. I don’t think they go away, nor do I think they should. But, you know, candidly, it’s an area that don’t think we’ve really figured out perfectly and I it’s really critical that as leaders, we do that, so that next generation is able to get the same growth that we all had.
SM: Well, and it’s interesting — the that you mentioned at the very beginning of our conversation, video, can be really helpful there. I’ve heard of a of organizations that have really encouraged their young people to present, as a way of having to go and find the information they need. And then, because we have video tools to us now, you know, they have an opportunity to share ideas with a large group of people, but first, kind of going the fact-finding and the research, and then sharing their ideas. In an earlier comment, you talked a bit about mental illness and the different things that people bringing to work, whether it is, you know, exhaustion, burnout. the Black Lives Matter protests, we had a lot of coming to the office feeling trauma, and feeling really issues bubble to the surface. I’m wondering if you can share a little bit about how you with this increasing personal — you know, when people bring whole selves to the office, which we encourage, sometimes, they things, parts of themselves that are challenging.
AS: Yeah … I’ve always thought the responsibility of a leader is to people to do their best work and the responsibility of a company is to empower our to do their best work. And so, of course, have a real role to play in supporting things like mental-health issues or burnout. And, you know, the I think, like many companies, the way we initially probably sought to do was more, you know, you’re seeing a problem and you’re reacting by trying provide mental-health resources or support or time off. And, I think — empathy, just empathy. I think that’s really important. And I always say, to so many our managers … just care. If we just care, a lot of things easier. You don’t have to design a hundred mechanisms if you just the right people in place who care. At the time, I will say what we’re realizing now, in of this next phase, is that that’s a reactive approach and actually the root — that we can control at Vimeo — the cause of a lot of stress and burnout is sometimes either don’t have enough … focus, we’re asking people do too many things or they don’t feel like they’re supported in doing things. And that, I think, is actually where we should be more time — is how do we actually set the right prioritization and focus. There’s issue there, right? There’s a root cause there that’s a “Oh, I like I’m stressed because there’s too much going on. don’t feel equipped to solve it.” Then, we should get into the “What is the detail there, do we need to do things differently?” And, you know, one of our themes at this year was “Do less, better.”
SM: As the starts to, maybe, move sideways, do you think that there are going to be who say, you know, “Out with all of this touchy-feely, the workplace-as-a-family stuff. are my results?”
AS: Absolutely. I think the pendulum has already swung pretty clearly. I mean, I work SAS, software as a service, so we already went from “growth all cost” to “profitability,” you know, pendulum swing. My on this — and it hasn’t changed — I think the best leaders and cultures deliver and treat people well. And I actually think, if you treat well, with kindness and empathy, you will get better results. so, you know, for me, I think what I observed over the last few years is — part, I think, hasn’t changed and shouldn’t change. There were, I think, a of times when companies, we did things because maybe it was lip or we felt pressured. And that’s not going to be sustainable. But that’s not — ultimately, that’s not what people need, in any case. So, know, I sort of see it as — the way you how you are caring towards your employees and how you are empathetic, always should in service of helping people do their best work, which deliver results, which will be good for the bottom line. And you have to believe that. You have be committed to that and if you use that consistently in decision-making, it should not be a trade-off. These are not mutually things.
SM: Anjali, how have you been taking care of yourself during this of tremendous turmoil and change, but also growth? You mentioned you just a baby. There’s a lot on your shoulders. How, as leader, do you practice some self-care or how do you make sure that you’re getting the balance need to be the most effective leader you can be?
AS: I think — recently, the phrase use a lot to myself is “two things can be true, both can be true.” I say a lot. And for me, I think of it as, like, “This job is hard, and it’s harder.” We went public at the height of the pandemic and year, market volatility has been tremendous. You know, we’re obviously through a ton with post-pandemic, we have a team in Ukraine through a war — all these things that have happened. so, it’s a hard job, and it’s an incredibly privileged job. It’s a gift, right? And so, think for me, it’s sort of acknowledging both of those things has me a lot. The way I’ve tried to kind of lead, has been — it’s always been way, which is, for me, it’s I have to have passion. I have to have passion. I have believe so deeply that what Vimeo is doing is important and for the world. And if I have passion, I have energy and I will — I can kind of move through anything. I have to find joy in my team. feel like, especially in hard times, I look back my career and actually, some of my most fulfilling times work were when — in the hardest business situations. it’s because it brought a group of people together all one team, and so I think that’s been, you know, a really big of it. And then, yeah, like, you have to be a little selfish sometimes, take care of yourself. And I am really fortunate. think I have a great support network around me and I do … husband and I have a deal, where on Sundays, I for a couple of hours. I just disappear and I walk around the city I listen to my music and do whatever I need do, and that’s really important.
SM: So you talked about hybrid work is going to look very different in the future how we describe it today. It’s basically in office a couple of days, from home a couple of other days. Tell us little bit more about what you could potentially see that into.
AS: I think the idea of an office a time and place completely goes away. And I it’s really going to be people are going to want to work from anywhere, anywhere the world. Even the concept of where you’re located is to change. And then the idea of like “I’m to work on this time zone” or “I’m going to attend this meeting that’s on this date” — I think that’s going to go away. And I think what you’re to find is more and more work, particularly from knowledge workers, is going to done anywhere, anytime. Communication and collaboration will happen asynchronously and we will be using tools technology — whether it’s video, whether it’s AI — to basically that at scale among many people, anywhere in the world. And then I think leadership, leaders are going to different. Because I think it’s going to require — if you think about the skill to be a global CEO 30 years ago versus what that require now — I think in the future … skill set is going to be like, “How do you communicate with diverse, global and employees across time zones in a way that effective, that provides context and alignment at scale? How do you organize programs, whether it’s compensation, whether it’s, know, training?” All of that is going to look very different. But I think the ultimate you’ll see is just … there were these constraints that we’ve lived with, whether it was time place or budget, in some cases. And I think those constraints are going to away. And the promise is that if we are flexible and smart and we use technology in right way, that we’ll actually come away a much evolved and efficient workforce.
SM: Well, I think you just us some of the passion that you’ve talked about as being the that gives you energy to lead that organization of 1,300 people worldwide. Anjali, thank you so much for being today.
AS: Thank you. This was great.