Stephanie Mehta: Welcome, Anjali. I’m glad you’re here with us today.
Anjali Sud: Thank you, it is great to be here.
SM: At Vimeo, lead a workforce of 1,300 people worldwide — you have creatives, you have people, you have technologists. So I’m going to start with a easy question: what was it like to manage this diverse workforce through a global pandemic, a reckoning and a very fraught return to office?
AS: Oh, it a breeze, Stephanie. No, it was really challenging. You know, think the only constant has been change. And as a leader, you — you have a workforce that’s looking for certainty, and they’re looking to control what’s happening around them. I think what we all found, as leaders, no matter company you were … responsible for, was that you couldn’t offer certainty, and you couldn’t always control the environment the things around you. And so, you know, for me, it was really about agility. do we stay flexible as a team? How do we communicate real time and keep people informed as we try move through things? And then, also just how do lead with more humanity? You know, for Vimeo, one the things I’ve really learned over the last few is we each experience the world so differently. We have employees who are remote. We have an team in Ukraine … employees who are on the front lines, who are literally at war. the other hand, you have people in different parts the world who are experiencing mental-health challenges or burnout, and I think it was really just — the hardest was not being able to give everyone certainty, not being able to just apply a one-size-fits-all for everyone. But I ultimately think it forced us, a company, to build more trust, because to be agile flexible, and to lead with humanity, you have to trust other. And so, I’m sort of optimistic that actually we’re emerging from time with a culture that is more flexible and nimble, and also, hopefully, has more trust.
SM: Can you an example of something that you put into place, perhaps during the pandemic, to enhance communications or trust or create a greater sense of community or to communicate that there is no certainty, that is a that you think you’ll continue to use in the far into the future?
AS: There’s a couple of things that we did. One — and are a video platform, so I obviously have to about video, but I mean this sincerely — one of the parts, when you’re all sort of disparate, is you lose context and lose nuance when you communicate. And we did make a concerted effort to move away email and chat, text-based communication, as much as possible, and try, particularly for our leadership team, when we were communicating, to do with your face, and your hands and your body and your emotions. And we did that through streaming a lot of communications, recording a lot of videos. We sent asynchronous messages. So I send … I record my screen just send a note out to people. Every new hire does a to welcome and introduce themselves. A lot of our meetings we’ve actually replaced just quick video presentations. And actually, what that really did was allow the humanity and the context to through and I think that helped us a lot to, kind of, close. So that was one, I think, really important thing.
Another important is, I think, just creating mechanisms to make it to talk about when things aren’t working, because a part of being agile is recognizing we have an area isn’t working. And so one of the things that do at Vimeo is we try — I do this in all of my town halls, we do in a lot of meetings — is always talk about what’s working, what are our three things, and what isn’t working — yet. And we’ve kind of created, think, a framework that sort of takes the stigma away talking about what’s not working. And when you make that and comfortable for people, I feel like it’s allowed to be more open, as an organization, about what do need to change, what do we need to pivot. And of those, being more video-first in our communication and being transparent and normalizing what’s not working, I think has been helpful, and certainly something we’re carrying forward.
SM: I love that advice about being video-first. So many of members of our workforce live in a video world. They’re used to video as a means of communication. Which me to my next question. You’ve talked about how the organization has changed. How do you see workforce changing? What is different with the young millennials, and even, now, the first wave of Gen Z into the workplace?
AS: I think it’s incredibly different. And, you know, of the things that we think about at Vimeo a is a lot of the mechanisms and communication modes that still use today, they’re really antiquated. They were designed for a totally different environment and a totally generation. But I see a lot of differences. One them, I think, is the line between your personal life work life is definitely blending. … If you think about your personal life — look at TikTok. This is used to consuming content, learning, engaging, in a very specific way. And if they then to come to work and to be trained on a job, read 300-page manual? Like, it’s not going to happen, right? Or you miss the meeting, and you have to watch the Zoom recording of three-hour meeting — that’s just not going to happen. And so I think that is definitely sort of this — you know, we talk the “consumerization of enterprise.” Those are just fancy words saying the way … we communicate and interact in our personal lives is going to to work. And so I definitely think that’s an area of opportunity.
The other I see from sort of the generation, the newest generation coming the workforce, is sort of, of course mission-driven, but think there’s a desire to really understand the “why” things. And one of our communication mantras is we never about the “what” without the “why.” And I think there’s desire to — the idea that, well, there’s a hierarchy, or “My boss told me that this what we’re going to do” or — that, I think, is moving away, and people, they don’t just want to something because someone with formal authority told them to do it. They want to do because they understand why it matters, why it ties to the mission. And I think that that leaders to really bring more of the “why” into we communicate and motivate people.
So those are two of the I see, and then, you know, the third I think is flexibility. I think — and this is true of all of us, but the younger generation — I think they’re looking for flexibility and they options and choices. And it’s not always easy and feasible to provide flexibility, but this is where I try and orient it more to agility. How can we have approaches principles and be committed to things, but also know when to question, and when actually pivot?
SM: Yeah. Anjali, can you share a few examples ways that you at Vimeo have tried to really be proactive when it comes to or understanding what your next generation of employees are going to want, either in terms of or in terms of benefits or in terms of flexibility? Are there programs or processes you’ve put in that really speak to this big sea change we’re in terms of values from the workforce?
AS: Firstly, course, it’s all about listening, right? And I think, like many organizations, the way we’ve tried to listen understand our workforce is very similar: it’s Q and As engagement surveys, and things like that. And some of the things we’ve done, we have a people and culture NPS, net promoter score, same way we have for our users, for our internal teams. I would say one of the things that we’ve really tried to do is appreciate that when we inputs from our employees, 1,300 employees … you can’t look the averages. You can’t look at it all in totality and try and out an obvious “Oh, this is how everybody’s feeling.” what you actually — when you really dig into and truly listen and do focus groups and talk to people — you’ll find is actually there’s very different experiences and desires among your employees. so, I think for us, what we’ve really just tried to is have a bunch of different listening mechanisms and then resist the to conveniently pull, like, “Oh, this is what everyone’s feeling, let’s just do this thing as the action.” it’s hard, and we’re still kind of figuring it out, I will tell you, some of the things that we’ve heard from employees have our approach to hybrid work or travel or even things like approach to compensation or our approach to DE and I. So think it’s more just like I said, that agile listening, constantly really what’s happening, but not treating everything as, like, an average or same. And for us, it’s been particularly stark because we have offices and teams in so different countries and the differences, they’re substantial. They’re really substantial, about the way we solve different things. And used to have a very, sort of, “One Vimeo” global approach in name of consistency and fairness, and what we found we have to be more localized. We really do. have to design mechanisms to support our teams in very different way, because their experiences and the world around is quite different.
So I think that’s definitely been one, and will tell you, it has involved a lot of — as executive team and leadership team — it’s involved a of trying things, it not working, and changing them. a great example is our Q and A. I feel like every leader I has a perspective on whether they do open Q and A anonymous Q and A, or real-time Q and A. We’ve changed our approach there multiple times, and I know will again, because we’re still figuring out the right way to listen and have a with a very diverse workforce.
SM: I want to stay on newcomers to the workplace for just moment, because another thing I hear from CEOs of generation and older is a concern about making sure that we are not providing our youngest employees with the flexibility and the purpose that they need, but also training and the wisdom that comes, oftentimes, from being in close proximity to mentor or to somebody who’s done the job for many more years. What is philosophy and take on making sure that knowledge transfer is happening?
AS: I it’s a major challenge that I don’t know that everyone will of have a solution for. I think about that all time. We have a very distributed workforce at Vimeo. have people in over eight countries. My executive team entirely distributed. So I’ve really realized the benefits of able to have a distributed workforce and being able to attract talent and just be more inclusive. the flip side, there’s definitely, I think, a lack of the same of learning opportunities and mentorship, particularly for the youngest folks are entering the workforce. So I think it’s a challenge. One of the that we’ve been taking, and what’s sort of nice, is we’re modeling it at top. So if my entire executive team is distributed, means I have to learn how to provide real-time feedback, and development for a whole set of new executives who have just joined. We have of changed up the executive team almost entirely in the last twelve months. I’ve had to deal with the same challenges. And we’ve had to literally — we call our operating system — we’ve had to design an operating system, as an executive team, how we’re going to work together in that environment. How do share real-time feedback? How do we create the right communication loops? And I think, from my perspective, it’s more we have to be able to do it ourselves and it and then, I think it’s a more proven mechanism for young people. I will say, like companies … I do believe that in-person collaboration is really important for learning. do have — we bring people into an office. you’re remote, we ask folks to come in and time in a room with their team, do social activities, all of those things. I don’t think they will away, nor do I think they should. But, you know, candidly, it’s an area I don’t think we’ve really figured out perfectly and think it’s really critical that as leaders, we do that, so that next generation is able to get the same growth opportunities we all had.
SM: Well, and it’s interesting — the that you mentioned at the very beginning of our conversation, around video, be really helpful there. I’ve heard of a number of organizations that really encouraged their young people to present, as a way of having to go out find the information they need. And then, because we have tools available to us now, you know, they have an opportunity to share ideas with a large group of people, but first, of going through the fact-finding and the research, and sharing their ideas. In an earlier comment, you talked a little bit mental illness and the different things that people are bringing to work, it is, you know, exhaustion, burnout. During the Black Lives Matter protests, had a lot of people coming to the office feeling trauma, and feeling personal issues bubble to the surface. I’m wondering if can share a little bit about how you deal this increasing personal — you know, when people bring their selves to the office, which we encourage, sometimes, they bring things, parts of themselves that are challenging.
AS: … I’ve always thought the responsibility of a leader is to empower to do their best work and the responsibility of a company to empower our people to do their best work. And so, of course, we have real role to play in supporting things like mental-health or burnout. And, you know, the way I think, like many companies, the way we initially sought to do that was more, you know, you’re seeing a problem you’re reacting by trying to provide mental-health resources or or time off. And, I think — and empathy, just empathy. I that’s really important. And I always say, to so of our managers … just care. If we just care, a lot of things easier. You don’t have to design a hundred mechanisms you just have the right people in place who care. At the same time, I will say what we’re now, in sort of this next phase, is that that’s a reactive approach and actually the cause — that we can control at Vimeo — root cause of a lot of stress and burnout is sometimes people don’t have enough … focus, we’re asking people to too many things or they don’t feel like they’re in doing those things. And that, I think, is actually where should be spending more time — is how do we actually set the right and focus. There’s some issue there, right? There’s a root cause there that’s a “Oh, I feel I’m stressed because there’s too much going on. I don’t equipped to solve it.” Then, we should get into the “What is the detail there, and do we to do things differently?” And, you know, one of our themes at Vimeo this was “Do less, better.”
SM: As the economy starts to, maybe, move sideways, do you think there are going to be stakeholders who say, you know, “Out with all of this touchy-feely, workplace-as-a-family stuff. Where are my results?”
AS: Absolutely. I think the has already swung pretty clearly. I mean, I work SAS, software as a service, so we already went from “growth all cost” to “profitability,” you know, pendulum swing. My on this — and it hasn’t changed — I think best leaders and cultures deliver results and treat people well. And actually think, if you treat people well, with kindness empathy, you will get better results. And so, you know, for me, I think I observed over the last few years is — that part, I think, hasn’t changed and shouldn’t change. were, I think, a lot of times when companies, we things because maybe it was lip service or we felt pressured. that’s not going to be sustainable. But that’s not — ultimately, that’s not what people need, in any case. So, know, I sort of see it as — the way you channel how you are caring towards employees and how you are empathetic, always should be in service of helping people do their work, which will deliver results, which will be good the bottom line. And you have to believe that. You have be committed to that and if you use that consistently your decision-making, it should not be a trade-off. These are not mutually things.
SM: Anjali, how have you been taking care yourself during this period of tremendous turmoil and change, also growth? You mentioned you just had a baby. There’s a lot on shoulders. How, as a leader, do you practice some self-care or how do you make sure that you’re the balance you need to be the most effective leader you be?
AS: I think — recently, the phrase I a lot to myself is “two things can be true, can be true.” I say this a lot. And for me, I of it as, like, “This job is hard, and it’s gotten harder.” We went at the height of the pandemic and last year, market has been tremendous. You know, we’re obviously going through a with post-pandemic, we have a team in Ukraine going a war — all these things that have happened. And so, it’s a hard job, and it’s an privileged job. It’s a gift, right? And so, I for me, it’s sort of acknowledging both of those things has helped me lot. The way I’ve tried to kind of lead, has — it’s always been this way, which is, for me, it’s I have to have passion. I to have passion. I have to believe so deeply that what Vimeo is doing is and matters for the world. And if I have passion, have energy and then I will — I can kind of through anything. I have to find joy in my team. I like, especially in hard times, I look back at career and actually, some of my most fulfilling times in work were — in the hardest business situations. But it’s because it brought a group of people together all on team, and so I think that’s been, you know, really big part of it. And then, yeah, like, you have to a little selfish sometimes, and take care of yourself. I am really fortunate. I think I have a great network around me and I do … My husband I have a deal, where on Sundays, I disappear for a couple of hours. I just disappear I walk around the city and I listen to my music and whatever I need to do, and that’s really important.
SM: you talked about how hybrid work is going to very different in the future than how we describe today. It’s basically in office a couple of days, work from a couple of other days. Tell us a little more about what you could potentially see that evolving into.
AS: I think the idea an office as a time and place completely goes away. And I it’s really going to be people are going to want to work from anywhere, in the world. Even the concept of where you’re located is going to change. And then the idea like “I’m going to work on this time zone” or “I’m going to attend meeting that’s scheduled on this date” — I think that’s going to away. And I think what you’re going to find is and more work, particularly from knowledge workers, is going to be done anywhere, anytime. Communication collaboration will happen asynchronously and we will be using tools and technology — it’s video, whether it’s AI — to basically enable that at scale many people, anywhere in the world. And then I think leadership, are going to look different. Because I think it’s going to require — you think about the skill set to be a global CEO 30 ago versus what that will require now — I think in the future … skill set is going to be like, “How do you communicate diverse, global audiences and employees across time zones in a way that is effective, that provides context and at scale? How do you organize programs, whether it’s compensation, it’s, you know, training?” All of that is going to very different. But I think the ultimate thing you’ll is just … there were these constraints that we’ve lived with, whether it time or place or budget, in some cases. And I think constraints are going to go away. And the promise is that we are flexible and smart and we use technology in the way, that we’ll actually come away a much more evolved efficient workforce.
SM: Well, I think you just showed us some of the passion you’ve talked about as being the thing that gives you to lead that organization of 1,300 people worldwide. Anjali, thank you so for being here today.
AS: Thank you. This was great.