Stephanie Mehta: Welcome, Anjali. I’m so glad you’re here us today.
Anjali Sud: Thank you, it is great be here.
SM: At Vimeo, you lead a workforce 1,300 people worldwide — you have creatives, you have people, you have technologists. So I’m going to start a really easy question: what was it like to this diverse workforce through a global pandemic, a racial reckoning a very fraught return to office?
AS: Oh, it a breeze, Stephanie. No, it was really challenging. You know, I think the constant has been change. And as a leader, you obviously — have a workforce that’s looking for certainty, and they’re looking to what’s happening around them. And I think what we all found, as leaders, no what company you were … responsible for, was that you couldn’t certainty, and you couldn’t always control the environment and the things around you. so, you know, for me, it was really about agility. How do we stay flexible as team? How do we communicate in real time and keep people informed as try and move through things? And then, also just how do we with more humanity? You know, for Vimeo, one of the things I’ve really learned over the last years is we each experience the world so differently. We have who are remote. We have an incredible team in Ukraine … employees who are the front lines, who are literally at war. On the hand, you have people in different parts of the world who are experiencing mental-health or burnout, and so I think it was really — the hardest part was not being able to everyone certainty, not being able to just apply a one-size-fits-all rule everyone. But I ultimately think it forced us, as a company, to build more trust, to be agile and flexible, and to lead with humanity, you have to trust each other. And so, I’m of optimistic that actually we’re emerging from this time a culture that is more flexible and nimble, and also, hopefully, more trust.
SM: Can you give an example of that you put into place, perhaps during the pandemic, to enhance communications or build or create a greater sense of community or even to communicate there is no certainty, that is a muscle that think you’ll continue to use in the organization far into the future?
AS: There’s a of things that we did. One — and we are a video platform, so I have to talk about video, but I mean this — one of the hardest parts, when you’re all sort disparate, is you lose context and you lose nuance when communicate. And we did make a concerted effort to move away from email and chat, text-based communication, much as possible, and actually try, particularly for our leadership team, when we communicating, to do it with your face, and your hands and your body and your emotions. And did that through live streaming a lot of communications, a lot of videos. We sent asynchronous video messages. So I … I record my screen and just send a note out people. Every new hire does a video to welcome and introduce themselves. lot of our meetings we’ve actually replaced with just video presentations. And actually, what that really did was allow the humanity and the to come through and I think that helped us a lot to, kind of, stay close. So that one, I think, really important thing.
Another important thing is, I think, just creating to make it easier to talk about when things aren’t working, a critical part of being agile is recognizing we have area that isn’t working. And so one of the things that we do Vimeo is we try — I do this in all of my town halls, do it in a lot of meetings — is talk about what’s working, what are our top three things, and what isn’t working — yet. And we’ve kind created, I think, a framework that sort of takes the stigma away from talking about what’s not working. when you make that normalized and comfortable for people, I feel like it’s us to be more open, as an organization, about what we need to change, what do we need to pivot. And both of those, being video-first in our communication and being more transparent and normalizing what’s working, I think has been really helpful, and certainly something we’re forward.
SM: I love that advice about being video-first. So many of members of our workforce live in a video world. They’re used video as a means of communication. Which brings me my next question. You’ve talked about how the organization changed. How do you see the workforce changing? What is different with young millennials, and even, now, the first wave of Gen Z coming into workplace?
AS: I think it’s incredibly different. And, you know, one the things that we think about at Vimeo a lot is a lot the mechanisms and communication modes that we still use today, they’re really antiquated. They were designed for totally different environment and a totally different generation. But I see lot of differences. One of them, I think, is the line between your personal and work life is definitely blending. … If you think about your personal life — look at TikTok. generation is used to consuming content, learning, engaging, in a specific way. And if they then have to come work and to be trained on a job, read a 300-page manual? Like, it’s not to happen, right? Or if you miss the meeting, and you have to watch Zoom recording of a three-hour meeting — that’s just not going to happen. And so I think that there definitely sort of this — you know, we talk about the “consumerization of enterprise.” Those just fancy words for saying the way … we and interact in our personal lives is going to translate to work. And so definitely think that’s an area of opportunity.
The other I see from sort of the generation, the newest generation coming into the workforce, sort of, of course mission-driven, but I think there’s a to really understand the “why” behind things. And one of our mantras is we never talk about the “what” without the “why.” And think there’s a desire to — the idea that, well, there’s hierarchy, or “My boss told me that this is what we’re to do” or — that, I think, is increasingly moving away, and people, don’t just want to do something because someone with formal authority told them do it. They want to do it because they why it matters, why it ties to the mission. And I think that forces leaders to really bring more of the “why” into we communicate and motivate people.
So those are two of the things see, and then, you know, the third I think is flexibility. I think — and this is true of all of us, particularly the younger generation — I think they’re looking for flexibility and they want and choices. And it’s not always easy and feasible provide ultimate flexibility, but this is where I try and orient it more agility. How can we have approaches and principles and be committed to things, but also know to question, and when to actually pivot?
SM: Yeah. Anjali, can you share a few examples of that you at Vimeo have tried to really be when it comes to addressing or understanding what your generation of employees are going to want, either in terms purpose or in terms of benefits or in terms flexibility? Are there programs or processes you’ve put in place that really speak this big sea change we’re seeing in terms of from the workforce?
AS: Firstly, of course, it’s all listening, right? And I think, like many organizations, the we’ve tried to listen and understand our workforce is very similar: it’s and As and engagement surveys, and things like that. And some of the things we’ve done, we have a people and culture NPS, promoter score, the same way we have for our users, for internal teams. But I would say one of the things that we’ve really tried to do is appreciate when we get inputs from our employees, 1,300 employees … can’t look at the averages. You can’t look at it all in totality and try pull out an obvious “Oh, this is how everybody’s feeling.” Because what actually — when you really dig into it and truly listen and do groups and talk to people — what you’ll find is actually there’s very different experiences and desires your employees. And so, I think for us, what we’ve really just tried do is have a bunch of different listening mechanisms and then resist the urge conveniently pull, like, “Oh, this is what everyone’s feeling, let’s just do this as the action.” And it’s hard, and we’re still kind of it out, but I will tell you, some of the things that we’ve heard from employees changed our approach to hybrid work or travel or even things our approach to compensation or our approach to DE and I. I think it’s more just like I said, that agile listening, really understanding what’s happening, but not treating everything as, like, average or the same. And for us, it’s been particularly stark because we have offices teams in so many different countries and the differences, they’re substantial. They’re substantial, about the way we solve different things. And we used have a very, sort of, “One Vimeo” global approach in the name of consistency and fairness, what we found is we have to be more localized. We really do. We have to design mechanisms to our teams in a very different way, because their experiences and the world them is quite different.
So I think that’s definitely been one, and I will tell you, it involved a lot of — as an executive team and team — it’s involved a lot of trying things, it not working, and changing them. And a great is our Q and A. I feel like every leader I has a perspective on whether they do open Q and A or Q and A, or real-time Q and A. We’ve changed our approach multiple times, and I know we will again, because we’re still figuring out the right way to listen have a dialogue with a very diverse workforce.
SM: I want to on newcomers to the workplace for just another moment, because another I hear from CEOs of my generation and older is concern about making sure that we are not just providing our employees with the flexibility and the purpose that they need, but the training and the wisdom that comes, oftentimes, from being in proximity to a mentor or to somebody who’s done the for many more years. What is your philosophy and take on sure that knowledge transfer is happening?
AS: I think it’s a major that I don’t know that everyone will sort of have a solution for. I think about all the time. We have a very distributed workforce at Vimeo. We have people over eight countries. My executive team is entirely distributed. So I’ve realized the benefits of being able to have a distributed workforce being able to attract talent and just be more inclusive. On flip side, there’s definitely, I think, a lack of the kinds of learning opportunities and mentorship, particularly for the youngest folks that are entering the workforce. So I it’s a challenge. One of the approaches that we’ve taking, and what’s sort of nice, is we’re modeling at the top. So if my entire executive team distributed, that means I have to learn how to real-time feedback, mentorship and development for a whole set of executives who have just joined. We have sort of changed up the executive almost entirely in the last twelve months. So I’ve had to with the same challenges. And we’ve had to literally — we it our operating system — we’ve had to design operating system, as an executive team, for how we’re going to work together that environment. How do we share real-time feedback? How do we create the right communication loops? And I think, from my perspective, it’s more we have to be to do it ourselves and model it and then, I think it’s a more mechanism for young people. I will say, like many companies … I do that in-person collaboration is really important for learning. We do have — we bring people into office. If you’re remote, we ask folks to come in spend time in a room with their team, do social activities, of those things. I don’t think they will go away, nor I think they should. But, you know, candidly, it’s an area I don’t think we’ve really figured out perfectly and think it’s really critical that as leaders, we do that, so this next generation is able to get the same growth opportunities we all had.
SM: Well, and it’s interesting — tools that you mentioned at the very beginning of conversation, around video, can be really helpful there. I’ve heard of a number of organizations that have encouraged their young people to present, as a way having to go out and find the information they need. And then, because have video tools available to us now, you know, they have an opportunity to share their ideas a large group of people, but first, kind of going through the fact-finding and the research, and sharing their ideas. In an earlier comment, you talked a little about mental illness and the different things that people bringing to work, whether it is, you know, exhaustion, burnout. During Black Lives Matter protests, we had a lot of coming to the office feeling trauma, and feeling really issues bubble to the surface. I’m wondering if you share a little bit about how you deal with increasing personal — you know, when people bring their selves to the office, which we encourage, sometimes, they bring things, of themselves that are challenging.
AS: Yeah … I’ve always thought the of a leader is to empower people to do best work and the responsibility of a company is to empower people to do their best work. And so, of course, we a real role to play in supporting things like mental-health issues or burnout. And, you know, way I think, like many companies, the way we initially probably to do that was more, you know, you’re seeing problem and you’re reacting by trying to provide mental-health resources or support or off. And, I think — and empathy, just empathy. think that’s really important. And I always say, to many of our managers … just care. If we just care, a lot of get easier. You don’t have to design a hundred if you just have the right people in place who care. At the same time, I will what we’re realizing now, in sort of this next phase, is that that’s a reactive approach actually the root cause — that we can control Vimeo — the root cause of a lot of stress and burnout is sometimes either don’t have enough … focus, we’re asking people to do too things or they don’t feel like they’re supported in doing those things. And that, I think, actually where we should be spending more time — is do we actually set the right prioritization and focus. There’s some issue there, right? There’s a cause there that’s a “Oh, I feel like I’m stressed because there’s too much going on. don’t feel equipped to solve it.” Then, we should get into the “What is the detail there, and we need to do things differently?” And, you know, one of our themes at Vimeo year was “Do less, better.”
SM: As the economy starts to, maybe, move sideways, do you that there are going to be stakeholders who say, know, “Out with all of this touchy-feely, the workplace-as-a-family stuff. Where my results?”
AS: Absolutely. I think the pendulum has already swung pretty clearly. mean, I work in SAS, software as a service, so we went from “growth at all cost” to “profitability,” you know, pendulum swing. My perspective on this — and it hasn’t — I think the best leaders and cultures deliver results and people well. And I actually think, if you treat people well, with kindness and empathy, you will better results. And so, you know, for me, I think what I over the last few years is — that part, think, hasn’t changed and shouldn’t change. There were, I think, a lot of times companies, we did things because maybe it was lip service we felt pressured. And that’s not going to be sustainable. But that’s not what — ultimately, that’s not people need, in any case. So, you know, I sort of it as — the way you channel how you caring towards your employees and how you are empathetic, always should in service of helping people do their best work, will deliver results, which will be good for the line. And you have to believe that. You have to be to that and if you use that consistently in your decision-making, it should not a trade-off. These are not mutually exclusive things.
SM: Anjali, how have been taking care of yourself during this period of tremendous turmoil and change, but also growth? You you just had a baby. There’s a lot on your shoulders. How, as a leader, do you some self-care or how do you make sure that you’re the balance you need to be the most effective leader you be?
AS: I think — recently, the phrase I use a lot to myself is “two can be true, both can be true.” I say this a lot. And for me, think of it as, like, “This job is hard, it’s gotten harder.” We went public at the height of pandemic and last year, market volatility has been tremendous. know, we’re obviously going through a ton with post-pandemic, we have a team in Ukraine going through a — all these things that have happened. And so, it’s hard job, and it’s an incredibly privileged job. It’s a gift, right? And so, think for me, it’s sort of acknowledging both of those has helped me a lot. The way I’ve tried to kind of lead, been — it’s always been this way, which is, for me, it’s I have to passion. I have to have passion. I have to believe so deeply that what is doing is important and matters for the world. And if have passion, I have energy and then I will — I can kind move through anything. I have to find joy in team. I feel like, especially in hard times, I look at my career and actually, some of my most fulfilling times in were when — in the hardest business situations. But it’s because it a group of people together all on one team, and so I that’s been, you know, a really big part of it. And then, yeah, like, you have to be a selfish sometimes, and take care of yourself. And I really fortunate. I think I have a great support network around me I do … My husband and I have a deal, where on Sundays, disappear for a couple of hours. I just disappear and walk around the city and I listen to my and do whatever I need to do, and that’s really important.
SM: So talked about how hybrid work is going to look very different the future than how we describe it today. It’s in office a couple of days, work from home couple of other days. Tell us a little bit more about what you could see that evolving into.
AS: I think the idea of office as a time and place completely goes away. And I think it’s really going be people are going to want to work from anywhere, anywhere the world. Even the concept of where you’re located is going to change. And then the idea like “I’m going to work on this time zone” or “I’m going to this meeting that’s scheduled on this date” — I think that’s to go away. And I think what you’re going to find more and more work, particularly from knowledge workers, is going to be done anywhere, anytime. Communication and collaboration happen asynchronously and we will be using tools and technology — it’s video, whether it’s AI — to basically enable that at scale among people, anywhere in the world. And then I think leadership, leaders going to look different. Because I think it’s going require — if you think about the skill set to a global CEO 30 years ago versus what that require now — I think in the future … the skill set is going to like, “How do you communicate with diverse, global audiences and employees across time zones in a way that effective, that provides context and alignment at scale? How do you organize programs, it’s compensation, whether it’s, you know, training?” All of that is to look very different. But I think the ultimate thing you’ll see is … there were these constraints that we’ve lived with, it was time or place or budget, in some cases. And I think those constraints are going to away. And the promise is that if we are flexible and smart and use technology in the right way, that we’ll actually come away much more evolved and efficient workforce.
SM: Well, I think just showed us some of the passion that you’ve talked about as being thing that gives you energy to lead that organization of 1,300 worldwide. Anjali, thank you so much for being here today.
AS: Thank you. was great.