Stephanie Mehta: Welcome, Anjali. I’m so you’re here with us today.
Anjali Sud: Thank you, is great to be here.
SM: At Vimeo, you a workforce of 1,300 people worldwide — you have creatives, you finance people, you have technologists. So I’m going to with a really easy question: what was it like to manage diverse workforce through a global pandemic, a racial reckoning a very fraught return to office?
AS: Oh, it a breeze, Stephanie. No, it was really challenging. You know, I think the only constant has change. And as a leader, you obviously — you have a workforce that’s looking certainty, and they’re looking to control what’s happening around them. And I think what all found, as leaders, no matter what company you … responsible for, was that you couldn’t offer certainty, and you couldn’t control the environment and the things around you. And so, you know, for me, was really about agility. How do we stay flexible as a team? How do we in real time and keep people informed as we and move through things? And then, also just how we lead with more humanity? You know, for Vimeo, one of things I’ve really learned over the last few years is we each experience world so differently. We have employees who are remote. We have an incredible in Ukraine … employees who are on the front lines, who are literally at war. the other hand, you have people in different parts of the world who are experiencing mental-health challenges burnout, and so I think it was really just — the hardest was not being able to give everyone certainty, not able to just apply a one-size-fits-all rule for everyone. I ultimately think it forced us, as a company, to more trust, because to be agile and flexible, and lead with humanity, you have to trust each other. And so, I’m sort of optimistic actually we’re emerging from this time with a culture is more flexible and nimble, and also, hopefully, has trust.
SM: Can you give an example of something that you put place, perhaps during the pandemic, to enhance communications or build trust or create a greater sense community or even to communicate that there is no certainty, that a muscle that you think you’ll continue to use in the organization far into the future?
AS: There’s couple of things that we did. One — and are a video platform, so I obviously have to talk about video, but I mean this sincerely — of the hardest parts, when you’re all sort of disparate, you lose context and you lose nuance when you communicate. And we did make a concerted effort move away from email and chat, text-based communication, as as possible, and actually try, particularly for our leadership team, we were communicating, to do it with your face, your hands and your body and your emotions. And we did through live streaming a lot of communications, recording a lot videos. We sent asynchronous video messages. So I send … I record screen and just send a note out to people. Every new hire does a video to and introduce themselves. A lot of our meetings we’ve replaced with just quick video presentations. And actually, what that really was allow the humanity and the context to come and I think that helped us a lot to, kind of, stay close. So that was one, think, really important thing.
Another important thing is, I think, just creating mechanisms to make it easier to about when things aren’t working, because a critical part of being agile is recognizing we an area that isn’t working. And so one of the things that we do at Vimeo we try — I do this in all of my town halls, we do in a lot of meetings — is always talk what’s working, what are our top three things, and isn’t working — yet. And we’ve kind of created, I think, a framework that sort takes the stigma away from talking about what’s not working. And you make that normalized and comfortable for people, I feel like it’s allowed us to more open, as an organization, about what do we need to change, what we need to pivot. And both of those, being more video-first in our communication and more transparent and normalizing what’s not working, I think has really helpful, and certainly something we’re carrying forward.
SM: I love that advice about video-first. So many of our members of our workforce live in a world. They’re used to video as a means of communication. Which me to my next question. You’ve talked about how the organization has changed. How you see the workforce changing? What is different with the millennials, and even, now, the first wave of Gen Z coming the workplace?
AS: I think it’s incredibly different. And, you know, one of the things that think about at Vimeo a lot is a lot of the mechanisms communication modes that we still use today, they’re really antiquated. They were designed for a different environment and a totally different generation. But I see lot of differences. One of them, I think, is the line between personal life and work life is definitely blending. … you think about your personal life — look at TikTok. generation is used to consuming content, learning, engaging, in very specific way. And if they then have to come to work and to be trained a job, read a 300-page manual? Like, it’s not going to happen, right? Or if you the meeting, and you have to watch the Zoom recording of three-hour meeting — that’s just not going to happen. And I think that there is definitely sort of this — you know, we talk about the “consumerization of enterprise.” are just fancy words for saying the way … we communicate and in our personal lives is going to translate to work. And so definitely think that’s an area of opportunity.
The other thing I see from sort the generation, the newest generation coming into the workforce, is of, of course mission-driven, but I think there’s a desire to really understand “why” behind things. And one of our communication mantras is we never talk about “what” without the “why.” And I think there’s a desire to — the idea that, well, there’s hierarchy, or “My boss told me that this is what we’re going to do” or — that, think, is increasingly moving away, and people, they don’t just want to something because someone with formal authority told them to do it. They want to it because they understand why it matters, why it ties the mission. And I think that that forces leaders to really bring of the “why” into how we communicate and motivate people.
So are two of the things I see, and then, know, the third I think is just flexibility. I think — and this is true of all us, but particularly the younger generation — I think they’re looking for flexibility and want options and choices. And it’s not always easy feasible to provide ultimate flexibility, but this is where try and orient it more to agility. How can we have approaches and and be committed to things, but also know when to question, and when actually pivot?
SM: Yeah. Anjali, can you share a examples of ways that you at Vimeo have tried to really be proactive when it comes to addressing understanding what your next generation of employees are going to want, either in terms of or in terms of benefits or in terms of flexibility? Are there programs processes you’ve put in place that really speak to this big sea change we’re seeing in terms values from the workforce?
AS: Firstly, of course, it’s about listening, right? And I think, like many organizations, way we’ve tried to listen and understand our workforce is very similar: it’s Q and and engagement surveys, and things like that. And some of things that we’ve done, we have a people and culture NPS, net promoter score, same way we have for our users, for our internal teams. But I say one of the things that we’ve really tried to do is appreciate that when get inputs from our employees, 1,300 employees … you can’t look at the averages. You can’t look at all in totality and try and pull out an obvious “Oh, this is how everybody’s feeling.” what you actually — when you really dig into it and truly listen and do groups and talk to people — what you’ll find is actually there’s very experiences and desires among your employees. And so, I think for us, what we’ve just tried to do is have a bunch of different listening mechanisms and resist the urge to conveniently pull, like, “Oh, this is what everyone’s feeling, let’s do this thing as the action.” And it’s hard, we’re still kind of figuring it out, but I will tell you, some of the things we’ve heard from employees have changed our approach to hybrid work or travel even things like our approach to compensation or our approach to DE and I. So I think it’s just like I said, that agile listening, constantly really what’s happening, but not treating everything as, like, an average or same. And for us, it’s been particularly stark because have offices and teams in so many different countries the differences, they’re substantial. They’re really substantial, about the we solve different things. And we used to have a very, of, “One Vimeo” global approach in the name of consistency fairness, and what we found is we have to more localized. We really do. We have to design mechanisms to support teams in a very different way, because their experiences and the around them is quite different.
So I think that’s been one, and I will tell you, it has involved a lot of — as an executive team leadership team — it’s involved a lot of trying things, it working, and changing them. And a great example is our Q A. I feel like every leader I know has perspective on whether they do open Q and A or anonymous Q A, or real-time Q and A. We’ve changed our approach there multiple times, and know we will again, because we’re still figuring out the right way to and have a dialogue with a very diverse workforce.
SM: want to stay on newcomers to the workplace for another moment, because another thing I hear from CEOs of my generation and older is a concern about sure that we are not just providing our youngest employees the flexibility and the purpose that they need, but the training and the wisdom that comes, oftentimes, from being in proximity to a mentor or to somebody who’s done the job for more years. What is your philosophy and take on making sure knowledge transfer is happening?
AS: I think it’s a major challenge that I don’t know everyone will sort of have a solution for. I think about that all the time. have a very distributed workforce at Vimeo. We have people in eight countries. My executive team is entirely distributed. So I’ve really the benefits of being able to have a distributed workforce and being able to attract talent and just more inclusive. On the flip side, there’s definitely, I think, lack of the same kinds of learning opportunities and mentorship, for the youngest folks that are entering the workforce. So think it’s a challenge. One of the approaches that we’ve taking, and what’s sort of nice, is we’re modeling it at top. So if my entire executive team is distributed, that means I to learn how to provide real-time feedback, mentorship and development for whole set of new executives who have just joined. We have sort of changed up the team almost entirely in the last twelve months. So I’ve had to deal with same challenges. And we’ve had to literally — we call it our operating system — we’ve had to an operating system, as an executive team, for how we’re going to together in that environment. How do we share real-time feedback? do we create the right communication loops? And so I think, from perspective, it’s more we have to be able to do ourselves and model it and then, I think it’s more proven mechanism for young people. I will say, like many companies … I believe that in-person collaboration is really important for learning. We have — we bring people into an office. If you’re remote, we ask to come in and spend time in a room with their team, do social activities, all those things. I don’t think they will go away, do I think they should. But, you know, candidly, it’s area that I don’t think we’ve really figured out perfectly and think it’s really critical that as leaders, we do that, so that this next generation is able to the same growth opportunities that we all had.
SM: Well, and it’s interesting — the tools that you mentioned the very beginning of our conversation, around video, can be helpful there. I’ve heard of a number of organizations have really encouraged their young people to present, as way of having to go out and find the information they need. And then, because we have video available to us now, you know, they have an to share their ideas with a large group of people, first, kind of going through the fact-finding and the research, and sharing their ideas. In an earlier comment, you talked a little about mental illness and the different things that people bringing to work, whether it is, you know, exhaustion, burnout. During Black Lives Matter protests, we had a lot of people coming the office feeling trauma, and feeling really personal issues bubble the surface. I’m wondering if you can share a little bit about how you deal this increasing personal — you know, when people bring their whole to the office, which we encourage, sometimes, they bring things, of themselves that are challenging.
AS: Yeah … I’ve always thought the responsibility a leader is to empower people to do their best work and the responsibility of a is to empower our people to do their best work. And so, of course, we have a real to play in supporting things like mental-health issues or burnout. And, you know, the way think, like many companies, the way we initially probably to do that was more, you know, you’re seeing a problem and you’re by trying to provide mental-health resources or support or time off. And, think — and empathy, just empathy. I think that’s really important. And always say, to so many of our managers … care. If we just care, a lot of things easier. You don’t have to design a hundred mechanisms if you just have the right people place who care. At the same time, I will say we’re realizing now, in sort of this next phase, is that that’s a approach and actually the root cause — that we control at Vimeo — the root cause of a of stress and burnout is sometimes people either don’t have enough … focus, we’re asking people to do many things or they don’t feel like they’re supported in doing those things. And that, think, is actually where we should be spending more time — is how we actually set the right prioritization and focus. There’s some issue there, right? There’s a root cause that’s a “Oh, I feel like I’m stressed because there’s much going on. I don’t feel equipped to solve it.” Then, should get into the “What is the detail there, and do we need to things differently?” And, you know, one of our themes Vimeo this year was “Do less, better.”
SM: As the economy starts to, maybe, move sideways, do you that there are going to be stakeholders who say, you know, “Out with all of this touchy-feely, workplace-as-a-family stuff. Where are my results?”
AS: Absolutely. I think the pendulum already swung pretty clearly. I mean, I work in SAS, software as a service, so we went from “growth at all cost” to “profitability,” you know, swing. My perspective on this — and it hasn’t — I think the best leaders and cultures deliver results and people well. And I actually think, if you treat people well, with kindness and empathy, you get better results. And so, you know, for me, I think what I observed over the few years is — that part, I think, hasn’t changed and shouldn’t change. There were, I think, lot of times when companies, we did things because maybe was lip service or we felt pressured. And that’s not going to be sustainable. But that’s not — ultimately, that’s not what people need, in any case. So, know, I sort of see it as — the you channel how you are caring towards your employees how you are empathetic, always should be in service of helping people do their best work, which deliver results, which will be good for the bottom line. And you have to believe that. You have be committed to that and if you use that consistently in your decision-making, it not be a trade-off. These are not mutually exclusive things.
SM: Anjali, how have you been taking care of yourself during period of tremendous turmoil and change, but also growth? mentioned you just had a baby. There’s a lot on shoulders. How, as a leader, do you practice some self-care how do you make sure that you’re getting the balance you need to be the most leader you can be?
AS: I think — recently, the I use a lot to myself is “two things can true, both can be true.” I say this a lot. And me, I think of it as, like, “This job hard, and it’s gotten harder.” We went public at the height the pandemic and last year, market volatility has been tremendous. You know, we’re obviously going a ton with post-pandemic, we have a team in going through a war — all these things that have happened. so, it’s a hard job, and it’s an incredibly privileged job. It’s a gift, right? so, I think for me, it’s sort of acknowledging of those things has helped me a lot. The way I’ve tried to kind of lead, been — it’s always been this way, which is, for me, it’s I to have passion. I have to have passion. I have to believe so that what Vimeo is doing is important and matters for the world. And if I have passion, have energy and then I will — I can kind move through anything. I have to find joy in my team. feel like, especially in hard times, I look back at my career and actually, some of my most times in work were when — in the hardest business situations. it’s because it brought a group of people together all on team, and so I think that’s been, you know, really big part of it. And then, yeah, like, you have to a little selfish sometimes, and take care of yourself. And I am fortunate. I think I have a great support network around me I do … My husband and I have a deal, where on Sundays, I disappear a couple of hours. I just disappear and I walk around the city and I listen my music and do whatever I need to do, and that’s important.
SM: So you talked about how hybrid work going to look very different in the future than we describe it today. It’s basically in office a couple of days, work from home a couple of days. Tell us a little bit more about what you could see that evolving into.
AS: I think the idea of an office as time and place completely goes away. And I think it’s really to be people are going to want to work from anywhere, anywhere in the world. Even the concept where you’re located is going to change. And then the idea like “I’m going to work on this time zone” or “I’m going to this meeting that’s scheduled on this date” — I think that’s to go away. And I think what you’re going to find is more more work, particularly from knowledge workers, is going to be done anywhere, anytime. Communication and will happen asynchronously and we will be using tools technology — whether it’s video, whether it’s AI — to enable that at scale among many people, anywhere in world. And then I think leadership, leaders are going to look different. Because I think it’s going require — if you think about the skill set to a global CEO 30 years ago versus what that will now — I think in the future … the set is going to be like, “How do you with diverse, global audiences and employees across time zones a way that is effective, that provides context and alignment at scale? How do organize programs, whether it’s compensation, whether it’s, you know, training?” All that is going to look very different. But I think the ultimate you’ll see is just … there were these constraints that we’ve lived with, it was time or place or budget, in some cases. And I think those are going to go away. And the promise is that we are flexible and smart and we use technology in the right way, we’ll actually come away a much more evolved and efficient workforce.
SM: Well, I think you just showed some of the passion that you’ve talked about as being the thing that gives you energy to that organization of 1,300 people worldwide. Anjali, thank you so for being here today.
AS: Thank you. This was great.