Stephanie Mehta: Welcome, Anjali. I’m glad you’re here with us today.
Anjali Sud: Thank you, it is to be here.
SM: At Vimeo, you lead a of 1,300 people worldwide — you have creatives, you finance people, you have technologists. So I’m going to start with a easy question: what was it like to manage this diverse through a global pandemic, a racial reckoning and a very fraught return to office?
AS: Oh, it a breeze, Stephanie. No, it was really challenging. You know, think the only constant has been change. And as a leader, you obviously — have a workforce that’s looking for certainty, and they’re looking to control what’s happening around them. And think what we all found, as leaders, no matter what company you were … for, was that you couldn’t offer certainty, and you couldn’t always control the environment and the things you. And so, you know, for me, it was really agility. How do we stay flexible as a team? How do we communicate in real time and keep informed as we try and move through things? And then, also just do we lead with more humanity? You know, for Vimeo, of the things I’ve really learned over the last years is we each experience the world so differently. We have employees are remote. We have an incredible team in Ukraine … employees who are on the front lines, are literally at war. On the other hand, you have people different parts of the world who are experiencing mental-health challenges or burnout, and so I think it really just — the hardest part was not being to give everyone certainty, not being able to just apply a one-size-fits-all rule for everyone. I ultimately think it forced us, as a company, to build more trust, because to be agile flexible, and to lead with humanity, you have to each other. And so, I’m sort of optimistic that actually we’re emerging from this time with a that is more flexible and nimble, and also, hopefully, has more trust.
SM: you give an example of something that you put into place, perhaps the pandemic, to enhance communications or build trust or create greater sense of community or even to communicate that is no certainty, that is a muscle that you think you’ll continue to use in the organization into the future?
AS: There’s a couple of things we did. One — and we are a video platform, so I obviously have to talk about video, I mean this sincerely — one of the hardest parts, when you’re all sort of disparate, is lose context and you lose nuance when you communicate. And we did make a concerted to move away from email and chat, text-based communication, much as possible, and actually try, particularly for our team, when we were communicating, to do it with your face, your hands and your body and your emotions. And we that through live streaming a lot of communications, recording a lot videos. We sent asynchronous video messages. So I send … I record my screen and just a note out to people. Every new hire does video to welcome and introduce themselves. A lot of meetings we’ve actually replaced with just quick video presentations. actually, what that really did was allow the humanity and the context to come through and I think helped us a lot to, kind of, stay close. that was one, I think, really important thing.
Another thing is, I think, just creating mechanisms to make it easier to about when things aren’t working, because a critical part of being is recognizing we have an area that isn’t working. And one of the things that we do at Vimeo is we try — I do in all of my town halls, we do it a lot of meetings — is always talk about what’s working, what are our top three things, and isn’t working — yet. And we’ve kind of created, think, a framework that sort of takes the stigma from talking about what’s not working. And when you make that normalized and comfortable for people, feel like it’s allowed us to be more open, as organization, about what do we need to change, what do need to pivot. And both of those, being more video-first in our communication and being transparent and normalizing what’s not working, I think has been really helpful, certainly something we’re carrying forward.
SM: I love that advice being video-first. So many of our members of our workforce in a video world. They’re used to video as means of communication. Which brings me to my next question. You’ve about how the organization has changed. How do you the workforce changing? What is different with the young millennials, and even, now, first wave of Gen Z coming into the workplace?
AS: I it’s incredibly different. And, you know, one of the things that we think at Vimeo a lot is a lot of the mechanisms and communication modes that still use today, they’re really antiquated. They were designed a totally different environment and a totally different generation. I see a lot of differences. One of them, I think, the line between your personal life and work life is definitely blending. … If think about your personal life — look at TikTok. This generation is used consuming content, learning, engaging, in a very specific way. if they then have to come to work and to be on a job, read a 300-page manual? Like, it’s not going to happen, right? if you miss the meeting, and you have to watch Zoom recording of a three-hour meeting — that’s just not going happen. And so I think that there is definitely sort of this — know, we talk about the “consumerization of enterprise.” Those are just fancy words saying the way … we communicate and interact in our lives is going to translate to work. And so I definitely think that’s an area opportunity.
The other thing I see from sort of the generation, the newest generation into the workforce, is sort of, of course mission-driven, but I there’s a desire to really understand the “why” behind things. one of our communication mantras is we never talk the “what” without the “why.” And I think there’s a desire — the idea that, well, there’s a hierarchy, or “My boss told me that this what we’re going to do” or — that, I think, is moving away, and people, they don’t just want to do something because someone with formal authority told them do it. They want to do it because they understand why it matters, why ties to the mission. And I think that that forces leaders to really bring of the “why” into how we communicate and motivate people.
So those are two of things I see, and then, you know, the third I think just flexibility. I think — and this is true all of us, but particularly the younger generation — think they’re looking for flexibility and they want options and choices. And it’s always easy and feasible to provide ultimate flexibility, but this is I try and orient it more to agility. How can have approaches and principles and be committed to things, but also when to question, and when to actually pivot?
SM: Yeah. Anjali, can you share a few examples of that you at Vimeo have tried to really be proactive when it comes to addressing or understanding your next generation of employees are going to want, either in terms of or in terms of benefits or in terms of flexibility? there programs or processes you’ve put in place that really speak to this sea change we’re seeing in terms of values from workforce?
AS: Firstly, of course, it’s all about listening, right? I think, like many organizations, the way we’ve tried to listen and understand our workforce very similar: it’s Q and As and engagement surveys, and things that. And some of the things that we’ve done, we have a people and NPS, net promoter score, the same way we have for our users, our internal teams. But I would say one of the things that we’ve really tried to do appreciate that when we get inputs from our employees, 1,300 employees … you can’t at the averages. You can’t look at it all in and try and pull out an obvious “Oh, this is how everybody’s feeling.” Because you actually — when you really dig into it truly listen and do focus groups and talk to — what you’ll find is actually there’s very different experiences and desires your employees. And so, I think for us, what we’ve really just tried to is have a bunch of different listening mechanisms and then resist the to conveniently pull, like, “Oh, this is what everyone’s feeling, let’s just do this thing as the action.” it’s hard, and we’re still kind of figuring it out, but I tell you, some of the things that we’ve heard from employees have our approach to hybrid work or travel or even like our approach to compensation or our approach to DE and I. So I it’s more just like I said, that agile listening, constantly understanding what’s happening, but not treating everything as, like, an average the same. And for us, it’s been particularly stark because we have offices and in so many different countries and the differences, they’re substantial. They’re substantial, about the way we solve different things. And we used have a very, sort of, “One Vimeo” global approach in the name of and fairness, and what we found is we have to be more localized. really do. We have to design mechanisms to support our in a very different way, because their experiences and world around them is quite different.
So I think that’s definitely been one, and will tell you, it has involved a lot of — as an executive team and leadership — it’s involved a lot of trying things, it not working, changing them. And a great example is our Q and A. I feel every leader I know has a perspective on whether they do open Q and A anonymous Q and A, or real-time Q and A. We’ve changed our approach there multiple times, and know we will again, because we’re still figuring out the right way to and have a dialogue with a very diverse workforce.
SM: want to stay on newcomers to the workplace for another moment, because another thing I hear from CEOs of generation and older is a concern about making sure that we are not just our youngest employees with the flexibility and the purpose that they need, but the training and the wisdom that comes, oftentimes, from being in close proximity to a or to somebody who’s done the job for many more years. is your philosophy and take on making sure that transfer is happening?
AS: I think it’s a major that I don’t know that everyone will sort of have solution for. I think about that all the time. We a very distributed workforce at Vimeo. We have people in over eight countries. My executive team entirely distributed. So I’ve really realized the benefits of being able to a distributed workforce and being able to attract talent and just be more inclusive. On the side, there’s definitely, I think, a lack of the same kinds of opportunities and mentorship, particularly for the youngest folks that are entering the workforce. I think it’s a challenge. One of the approaches we’ve been taking, and what’s sort of nice, is we’re modeling it at top. So if my entire executive team is distributed, means I have to learn how to provide real-time feedback, mentorship and development for whole set of new executives who have just joined. We have sort of changed the executive team almost entirely in the last twelve months. So I’ve had to with the same challenges. And we’ve had to literally — call it our operating system — we’ve had to design an system, as an executive team, for how we’re going to work in that environment. How do we share real-time feedback? do we create the right communication loops? And so think, from my perspective, it’s more we have to be able to it ourselves and model it and then, I think it’s a more mechanism for young people. I will say, like many companies … I believe that in-person collaboration is really important for learning. We do have — we bring people an office. If you’re remote, we ask folks to come in and spend time a room with their team, do social activities, all those things. I don’t think they will go away, do I think they should. But, you know, candidly, it’s area that I don’t think we’ve really figured out and I think it’s really critical that as leaders, we do that, so that next generation is able to get the same growth opportunities that all had.
SM: Well, and it’s interesting — the tools that you at the very beginning of our conversation, around video, can be really helpful there. I’ve heard a number of organizations that have really encouraged their young people to present, as way of having to go out and find the information they need. And then, because we have tools available to us now, you know, they have an opportunity to share their with a large group of people, but first, kind going through the fact-finding and the research, and then sharing their ideas. In earlier comment, you talked a little bit about mental illness and the different that people are bringing to work, whether it is, you know, exhaustion, burnout. During Black Lives Matter protests, we had a lot of people coming to office feeling trauma, and feeling really personal issues bubble to the surface. I’m wondering if you can a little bit about how you deal with this personal — you know, when people bring their whole selves to the office, we encourage, sometimes, they bring things, parts of themselves that challenging.
AS: Yeah … I’ve always thought the responsibility of a leader is to empower people do their best work and the responsibility of a company is to empower our people to do best work. And so, of course, we have a role to play in supporting things like mental-health issues or burnout. And, you know, the way I think, many companies, the way we initially probably sought to that was more, you know, you’re seeing a problem and you’re reacting by trying to provide mental-health or support or time off. And, I think — empathy, just empathy. I think that’s really important. And always say, to so many of our managers … just care. we just care, a lot of things get easier. You don’t to design a hundred mechanisms if you just have the people in place who care. At the same time, I say what we’re realizing now, in sort of this next phase, is that’s a reactive approach and actually the root cause — we can control at Vimeo — the root cause of a lot of stress and burnout sometimes people either don’t have enough … focus, we’re asking people to do too many things or don’t feel like they’re supported in doing those things. And that, I think, is where we should be spending more time — is how do we actually set the prioritization and focus. There’s some issue there, right? There’s a root cause there that’s a “Oh, I like I’m stressed because there’s too much going on. don’t feel equipped to solve it.” Then, we should into the “What is the detail there, and do we need to do differently?” And, you know, one of our themes at Vimeo this was “Do less, better.”
SM: As the economy starts to, maybe, move sideways, do you think that there are to be stakeholders who say, you know, “Out with all of touchy-feely, the workplace-as-a-family stuff. Where are my results?”
AS: Absolutely. think the pendulum has already swung pretty clearly. I mean, I in SAS, software as a service, so we already went “growth at all cost” to “profitability,” you know, pendulum swing. My on this — and it hasn’t changed — I think the best leaders and cultures deliver and treat people well. And I actually think, if you treat people well, with kindness and empathy, will get better results. And so, you know, for me, I think what I observed over the last years is — that part, I think, hasn’t changed shouldn’t change. There were, I think, a lot of times companies, we did things because maybe it was lip or we felt pressured. And that’s not going to be sustainable. that’s not what — ultimately, that’s not what people need, any case. So, you know, I sort of see as — the way you channel how you are caring towards your and how you are empathetic, always should be in service helping people do their best work, which will deliver results, which will be good for the line. And you have to believe that. You have to be committed to and if you use that consistently in your decision-making, should not be a trade-off. These are not mutually exclusive things.
SM: Anjali, have you been taking care of yourself during this of tremendous turmoil and change, but also growth? You mentioned you had a baby. There’s a lot on your shoulders. How, as leader, do you practice some self-care or how do you make sure that you’re getting the you need to be the most effective leader you can be?
AS: I — recently, the phrase I use a lot to myself is “two can be true, both can be true.” I say this a lot. And for me, I think of as, like, “This job is hard, and it’s gotten harder.” We public at the height of the pandemic and last year, market has been tremendous. You know, we’re obviously going through a ton post-pandemic, we have a team in Ukraine going through a war — all these things that happened. And so, it’s a hard job, and it’s incredibly privileged job. It’s a gift, right? And so, think for me, it’s sort of acknowledging both of those has helped me a lot. The way I’ve tried to of lead, has been — it’s always been this way, is, for me, it’s I have to have passion. have to have passion. I have to believe so deeply that what Vimeo is doing is important and for the world. And if I have passion, I have and then I will — I can kind of move through anything. I have to joy in my team. I feel like, especially in times, I look back at my career and actually, of my most fulfilling times in work were when — in hardest business situations. But it’s because it brought a group of people together on one team, and so I think that’s been, know, a really big part of it. And then, yeah, like, you have to be a selfish sometimes, and take care of yourself. And I am really fortunate. I think I a great support network around me and I do … My husband and have a deal, where on Sundays, I disappear for a couple of hours. I just disappear and walk around the city and I listen to my music and do whatever need to do, and that’s really important.
SM: So you talked about hybrid work is going to look very different in the future than how we describe today. It’s basically in office a couple of days, work from a couple of other days. Tell us a little more about what you could potentially see that evolving into.
AS: think the idea of an office as a time and place completely goes away. And think it’s really going to be people are going to to work from anywhere, anywhere in the world. Even concept of where you’re located is going to change. And then idea of like “I’m going to work on this zone” or “I’m going to attend this meeting that’s on this date” — I think that’s going to go away. And I think what you’re going find is more and more work, particularly from knowledge workers, is going be done anywhere, anytime. Communication and collaboration will happen and we will be using tools and technology — whether it’s video, it’s AI — to basically enable that at scale many people, anywhere in the world. And then I think leadership, leaders are going look different. Because I think it’s going to require — if think about the skill set to be a global CEO 30 years versus what that will require now — I think in the future … skill set is going to be like, “How do you communicate with diverse, global and employees across time zones in a way that is effective, that provides context and alignment at scale? do you organize programs, whether it’s compensation, whether it’s, you know, training?” All of that is going look very different. But I think the ultimate thing you’ll see is just … there these constraints that we’ve lived with, whether it was time or place budget, in some cases. And I think those constraints are to go away. And the promise is that if we are and smart and we use technology in the right way, that we’ll actually come a much more evolved and efficient workforce.
SM: Well, I think you just us some of the passion that you’ve talked about as being the thing that gives energy to lead that organization of 1,300 people worldwide. Anjali, you so much for being here today.
AS: Thank you. was great.