Stephanie Mehta: Welcome, Anjali. I’m so glad you’re here with us today.
Anjali Sud: you, it is great to be here.
SM: At Vimeo, you lead a workforce 1,300 people worldwide — you have creatives, you have finance people, you have technologists. So I’m going start with a really easy question: what was it like to manage diverse workforce through a global pandemic, a racial reckoning a very fraught return to office?
AS: Oh, it a breeze, Stephanie. No, it was really challenging. You know, I think the only constant has change. And as a leader, you obviously — you a workforce that’s looking for certainty, and they’re looking control what’s happening around them. And I think what we all found, as leaders, no what company you were … responsible for, was that you couldn’t offer certainty, and you couldn’t always the environment and the things around you. And so, know, for me, it was really about agility. How do we flexible as a team? How do we communicate in time and keep people informed as we try and move through things? And then, just how do we lead with more humanity? You know, for Vimeo, one of things I’ve really learned over the last few years we each experience the world so differently. We have who are remote. We have an incredible team in Ukraine … employees who are on the front lines, are literally at war. On the other hand, you have people in different parts of world who are experiencing mental-health challenges or burnout, and so think it was really just — the hardest part not being able to give everyone certainty, not being to just apply a one-size-fits-all rule for everyone. But I think it forced us, as a company, to build more trust, to be agile and flexible, and to lead with humanity, you to trust each other. And so, I’m sort of optimistic actually we’re emerging from this time with a culture that is flexible and nimble, and also, hopefully, has more trust.
SM: Can you give example of something that you put into place, perhaps during the pandemic, to enhance communications or build or create a greater sense of community or even to communicate there is no certainty, that is a muscle that you think you’ll continue to use the organization far into the future?
AS: There’s a couple of things that we did. — and we are a video platform, so I obviously have talk about video, but I mean this sincerely — one of the hardest parts, when you’re all of disparate, is you lose context and you lose nuance you communicate. And we did make a concerted effort to away from email and chat, text-based communication, as much as possible, and try, particularly for our leadership team, when we were communicating, do it with your face, and your hands and body and your emotions. And we did that through live streaming a lot of communications, recording a lot videos. We sent asynchronous video messages. So I send … I record my screen and just a note out to people. Every new hire does a video to welcome introduce themselves. A lot of our meetings we’ve actually replaced with just quick presentations. And actually, what that really did was allow the humanity and the context to through and I think that helped us a lot to, kind of, stay close. So was one, I think, really important thing.
Another important thing is, I think, just creating to make it easier to talk about when things aren’t working, because a critical part of being agile recognizing we have an area that isn’t working. And so one of the that we do at Vimeo is we try — I do this in of my town halls, we do it in a lot of meetings — always talk about what’s working, what are our top things, and what isn’t working — yet. And we’ve of created, I think, a framework that sort of takes the stigma from talking about what’s not working. And when you make that normalized and comfortable for people, feel like it’s allowed us to be more open, as organization, about what do we need to change, what do we need to pivot. And both of those, more video-first in our communication and being more transparent and normalizing what’s not working, I has been really helpful, and certainly something we’re carrying forward.
SM: I love that advice about video-first. So many of our members of our workforce live in a video world. They’re used video as a means of communication. Which brings me to my question. You’ve talked about how the organization has changed. How you see the workforce changing? What is different with young millennials, and even, now, the first wave of Gen Z into the workplace?
AS: I think it’s incredibly different. And, know, one of the things that we think about at Vimeo lot is a lot of the mechanisms and communication modes that we still use today, they’re really antiquated. were designed for a totally different environment and a totally different generation. I see a lot of differences. One of them, I think, the line between your personal life and work life definitely blending. … If you think about your personal life — look at TikTok. This generation is to consuming content, learning, engaging, in a very specific way. And if then have to come to work and to be trained on a job, read 300-page manual? Like, it’s not going to happen, right? Or if you miss the meeting, and you to watch the Zoom recording of a three-hour meeting — that’s just not to happen. And so I think that there is definitely sort this — you know, we talk about the “consumerization of enterprise.” Those just fancy words for saying the way … we and interact in our personal lives is going to translate to work. And so I definitely think that’s area of opportunity.
The other thing I see from sort the generation, the newest generation coming into the workforce, sort of, of course mission-driven, but I think there’s a desire to really understand the “why” things. And one of our communication mantras is we never talk about the “what” without “why.” And I think there’s a desire to — the that, well, there’s a hierarchy, or “My boss told that this is what we’re going to do” or — that, think, is increasingly moving away, and people, they don’t just to do something because someone with formal authority told them to do it. They want to it because they understand why it matters, why it ties to the mission. And I think that forces leaders to really bring more of the “why” into we communicate and motivate people.
So those are two of things I see, and then, you know, the third I is just flexibility. I think — and this is true of of us, but particularly the younger generation — I they’re looking for flexibility and they want options and choices. And it’s not always and feasible to provide ultimate flexibility, but this is where I try and orient it to agility. How can we have approaches and principles and be to things, but also know when to question, and when to pivot?
SM: Yeah. Anjali, can you share a few examples ways that you at Vimeo have tried to really be proactive when it comes to addressing or what your next generation of employees are going to want, either in terms of purpose in terms of benefits or in terms of flexibility? Are there programs or you’ve put in place that really speak to this big sea change we’re in terms of values from the workforce?
AS: Firstly, of course, it’s all listening, right? And I think, like many organizations, the way we’ve to listen and understand our workforce is very similar: it’s and As and engagement surveys, and things like that. And of the things that we’ve done, we have a people and NPS, net promoter score, the same way we have for our users, for our teams. But I would say one of the things that we’ve really tried to do is that when we get inputs from our employees, 1,300 … you can’t look at the averages. You can’t look at all in totality and try and pull out an “Oh, this is how everybody’s feeling.” Because what you actually — when you really dig it and truly listen and do focus groups and to people — what you’ll find is actually there’s very different experiences and desires among your employees. so, I think for us, what we’ve really just to do is have a bunch of different listening and then resist the urge to conveniently pull, like, “Oh, this is everyone’s feeling, let’s just do this thing as the action.” it’s hard, and we’re still kind of figuring it out, but I will tell you, some the things that we’ve heard from employees have changed approach to hybrid work or travel or even things like our approach to compensation or approach to DE and I. So I think it’s more just like I said, that agile listening, really understanding what’s happening, but not treating everything as, like, an average or the same. And us, it’s been particularly stark because we have offices and in so many different countries and the differences, they’re substantial. They’re really substantial, about way we solve different things. And we used to have a very, sort of, “One Vimeo” approach in the name of consistency and fairness, and we found is we have to be more localized. We really do. We have design mechanisms to support our teams in a very different way, because their experiences and the world them is quite different.
So I think that’s definitely been one, and I will you, it has involved a lot of — as an executive team and leadership team — it’s a lot of trying things, it not working, and changing them. a great example is our Q and A. I like every leader I know has a perspective on they do open Q and A or anonymous Q and A, or real-time and A. We’ve changed our approach there multiple times, I know we will again, because we’re still figuring out the right way to and have a dialogue with a very diverse workforce.
SM: I want to stay on newcomers the workplace for just another moment, because another thing I from CEOs of my generation and older is a about making sure that we are not just providing our youngest employees the flexibility and the purpose that they need, but also the training the wisdom that comes, oftentimes, from being in close proximity to a or to somebody who’s done the job for many more years. What is your and take on making sure that knowledge transfer is happening?
AS: I think it’s a major challenge I don’t know that everyone will sort of have a for. I think about that all the time. We have a very workforce at Vimeo. We have people in over eight countries. My executive team is distributed. So I’ve really realized the benefits of being to have a distributed workforce and being able to attract talent and just be more inclusive. On the side, there’s definitely, I think, a lack of the same kinds of learning opportunities and mentorship, for the youngest folks that are entering the workforce. So think it’s a challenge. One of the approaches that we’ve been taking, what’s sort of nice, is we’re modeling it at the top. So if my executive team is distributed, that means I have to learn how provide real-time feedback, mentorship and development for a whole set of executives who have just joined. We have sort of changed the executive team almost entirely in the last twelve months. So I’ve had to with the same challenges. And we’ve had to literally — we call it our operating — we’ve had to design an operating system, as an team, for how we’re going to work together in environment. How do we share real-time feedback? How do we create the right communication loops? And I think, from my perspective, it’s more we have to be able to do it ourselves and model and then, I think it’s a more proven mechanism for young people. I will say, like many … I do believe that in-person collaboration is really important for learning. We do have — bring people into an office. If you’re remote, we folks to come in and spend time in a room with their team, do activities, all of those things. I don’t think they go away, nor do I think they should. But, know, candidly, it’s an area that I don’t think we’ve really out perfectly and I think it’s really critical that as leaders, we do that, that this next generation is able to get the same growth opportunities that we had.
SM: Well, and it’s interesting — the tools that mentioned at the very beginning of our conversation, around video, be really helpful there. I’ve heard of a number of that have really encouraged their young people to present, as a way of having to out and find the information they need. And then, because we have tools available to us now, you know, they have an opportunity to share their with a large group of people, but first, kind going through the fact-finding and the research, and then sharing their ideas. an earlier comment, you talked a little bit about illness and the different things that people are bringing work, whether it is, you know, exhaustion, burnout. During Black Lives Matter protests, we had a lot of people to the office feeling trauma, and feeling really personal issues bubble the surface. I’m wondering if you can share a little bit about how you with this increasing personal — you know, when people bring their selves to the office, which we encourage, sometimes, they bring things, parts of themselves that are challenging.
AS: … I’ve always thought the responsibility of a leader is to empower people do their best work and the responsibility of a is to empower our people to do their best work. And so, of course, we a real role to play in supporting things like mental-health issues or burnout. And, you know, the I think, like many companies, the way we initially sought to do that was more, you know, you’re seeing a problem you’re reacting by trying to provide mental-health resources or support or off. And, I think — and empathy, just empathy. I think that’s important. And I always say, to so many of our managers … just care. we just care, a lot of things get easier. You don’t have to a hundred mechanisms if you just have the right people in place who care. At the time, I will say what we’re realizing now, in sort of next phase, is that that’s a reactive approach and actually the root cause — that we can at Vimeo — the root cause of a lot of stress burnout is sometimes people either don’t have enough … focus, we’re asking people to do too things or they don’t feel like they’re supported in those things. And that, I think, is actually where we should spending more time — is how do we actually set the right prioritization and focus. There’s some there, right? There’s a root cause there that’s a “Oh, I feel like I’m because there’s too much going on. I don’t feel equipped to solve it.” Then, we should get into “What is the detail there, and do we need to do differently?” And, you know, one of our themes at Vimeo year was “Do less, better.”
SM: As the economy to, maybe, move sideways, do you think that there are going be stakeholders who say, you know, “Out with all this touchy-feely, the workplace-as-a-family stuff. Where are my results?”
AS: Absolutely. I think the has already swung pretty clearly. I mean, I work in SAS, software a service, so we already went from “growth at all cost” to “profitability,” know, pendulum swing. My perspective on this — and it hasn’t changed — think the best leaders and cultures deliver results and treat people well. And I think, if you treat people well, with kindness and empathy, you get better results. And so, you know, for me, I think what I observed over the last years is — that part, I think, hasn’t changed and shouldn’t change. There were, think, a lot of times when companies, we did things maybe it was lip service or we felt pressured. And that’s going to be sustainable. But that’s not what — ultimately, that’s not what people need, any case. So, you know, I sort of see it — the way you channel how you are caring towards your employees and you are empathetic, always should be in service of people do their best work, which will deliver results, which will be good for the bottom line. And have to believe that. You have to be committed to that if you use that consistently in your decision-making, it should not be a trade-off. These are mutually exclusive things.
SM: Anjali, how have you been taking care yourself during this period of tremendous turmoil and change, but also growth? You mentioned you just a baby. There’s a lot on your shoulders. How, as leader, do you practice some self-care or how do you make sure that you’re getting the balance need to be the most effective leader you can be?
AS: I think — recently, the phrase I use a to myself is “two things can be true, both can be true.” I say this lot. And for me, I think of it as, like, “This job is hard, and it’s gotten harder.” We public at the height of the pandemic and last year, volatility has been tremendous. You know, we’re obviously going through ton with post-pandemic, we have a team in Ukraine going through a war — these things that have happened. And so, it’s a hard job, it’s an incredibly privileged job. It’s a gift, right? And so, think for me, it’s sort of acknowledging both of things has helped me a lot. The way I’ve tried to kind lead, has been — it’s always been this way, is, for me, it’s I have to have passion. I to have passion. I have to believe so deeply that what is doing is important and matters for the world. And if I have passion, I have and then I will — I can kind of move through anything. I have find joy in my team. I feel like, especially in hard times, I look at my career and actually, some of my most fulfilling in work were when — in the hardest business situations. But it’s it brought a group of people together all on one team, so I think that’s been, you know, a really big part it. And then, yeah, like, you have to be a little selfish sometimes, and take of yourself. And I am really fortunate. I think I a great support network around me and I do … My husband and have a deal, where on Sundays, I disappear for a couple hours. I just disappear and I walk around the city I listen to my music and do whatever I to do, and that’s really important.
SM: So you talked about how hybrid work is to look very different in the future than how we it today. It’s basically in office a couple of days, work from home a of other days. Tell us a little bit more about what could potentially see that evolving into.
AS: I think idea of an office as a time and place completely goes away. I think it’s really going to be people are going to want work from anywhere, anywhere in the world. Even the concept of where you’re located is going to change. then the idea of like “I’m going to work this time zone” or “I’m going to attend this that’s scheduled on this date” — I think that’s going to go away. And I think you’re going to find is more and more work, particularly from knowledge workers, is going to done anywhere, anytime. Communication and collaboration will happen asynchronously we will be using tools and technology — whether it’s video, whether it’s — to basically enable that at scale among many people, anywhere in world. And then I think leadership, leaders are going look different. Because I think it’s going to require — if you think about skill set to be a global CEO 30 years ago versus what that require now — I think in the future … skill set is going to be like, “How do communicate with diverse, global audiences and employees across time in a way that is effective, that provides context and alignment scale? How do you organize programs, whether it’s compensation, whether it’s, you know, training?” All of that going to look very different. But I think the ultimate you’ll see is just … there were these constraints that we’ve with, whether it was time or place or budget, in cases. And I think those constraints are going to away. And the promise is that if we are flexible smart and we use technology in the right way, that we’ll actually away a much more evolved and efficient workforce.
SM: Well, think you just showed us some of the passion you’ve talked about as being the thing that gives energy to lead that organization of 1,300 people worldwide. Anjali, thank so much for being here today.
AS: Thank you. This great.