Stephanie Mehta: Welcome, Anjali. I’m so you’re here with us today.
Anjali Sud: Thank you, it is to be here.
SM: At Vimeo, you lead a of 1,300 people worldwide — you have creatives, you have finance people, you technologists. So I’m going to start with a really question: what was it like to manage this diverse workforce through global pandemic, a racial reckoning and a very fraught return office?
AS: Oh, it was a breeze, Stephanie. No, was really challenging. You know, I think the only constant been change. And as a leader, you obviously — you a workforce that’s looking for certainty, and they’re looking control what’s happening around them. And I think what we all found, as leaders, no matter company you were … responsible for, was that you couldn’t offer certainty, and couldn’t always control the environment and the things around you. And so, know, for me, it was really about agility. How do we stay flexible as team? How do we communicate in real time and people informed as we try and move through things? then, also just how do we lead with more humanity? You know, for Vimeo, of the things I’ve really learned over the last few years is we each experience world so differently. We have employees who are remote. have an incredible team in Ukraine … employees who on the front lines, who are literally at war. On the hand, you have people in different parts of the world are experiencing mental-health challenges or burnout, and so I think it was really just — the hardest part not being able to give everyone certainty, not being able to just apply a one-size-fits-all rule for everyone. I ultimately think it forced us, as a company, to build more trust, because be agile and flexible, and to lead with humanity, you have to each other. And so, I’m sort of optimistic that we’re emerging from this time with a culture that is more and nimble, and also, hopefully, has more trust.
SM: Can you give an example of something that you into place, perhaps during the pandemic, to enhance communications build trust or create a greater sense of community even to communicate that there is no certainty, that a muscle that you think you’ll continue to use in the organization far into the future?
AS: There’s couple of things that we did. One — and we are a video platform, so I obviously to talk about video, but I mean this sincerely — of the hardest parts, when you’re all sort of disparate, is you context and you lose nuance when you communicate. And we did make a concerted effort move away from email and chat, text-based communication, as much possible, and actually try, particularly for our leadership team, when we were communicating, do it with your face, and your hands and body and your emotions. And we did that through streaming a lot of communications, recording a lot of videos. We asynchronous video messages. So I send … I record my screen and send a note out to people. Every new hire a video to welcome and introduce themselves. A lot of our meetings we’ve actually with just quick video presentations. And actually, what that really did was allow the and the context to come through and I think that us a lot to, kind of, stay close. So that was one, think, really important thing.
Another important thing is, I think, just mechanisms to make it easier to talk about when things aren’t working, because critical part of being agile is recognizing we have an that isn’t working. And so one of the things that we at Vimeo is we try — I do this in of my town halls, we do it in a lot of meetings — is always talk what’s working, what are our top three things, and what isn’t working — yet. And we’ve of created, I think, a framework that sort of takes the away from talking about what’s not working. And when you make that normalized comfortable for people, I feel like it’s allowed us to be more open, as an organization, what do we need to change, what do we need to pivot. And both of those, being video-first in our communication and being more transparent and normalizing what’s not working, think has been really helpful, and certainly something we’re carrying forward.
SM: I that advice about being video-first. So many of our members of our live in a video world. They’re used to video as means of communication. Which brings me to my next question. You’ve talked about how the organization changed. How do you see the workforce changing? What is different with the young millennials, even, now, the first wave of Gen Z coming the workplace?
AS: I think it’s incredibly different. And, you know, one the things that we think about at Vimeo a lot is a lot of mechanisms and communication modes that we still use today, they’re antiquated. They were designed for a totally different environment and totally different generation. But I see a lot of differences. of them, I think, is the line between your life and work life is definitely blending. … If you think about your personal life — look TikTok. This generation is used to consuming content, learning, engaging, in a very specific way. And if then have to come to work and to be on a job, read a 300-page manual? Like, it’s going to happen, right? Or if you miss the meeting, and you have to the Zoom recording of a three-hour meeting — that’s just not going to happen. so I think that there is definitely sort of this — you know, we talk the “consumerization of enterprise.” Those are just fancy words saying the way … we communicate and interact in personal lives is going to translate to work. And so I definitely think that’s an of opportunity.
The other thing I see from sort of the generation, newest generation coming into the workforce, is sort of, of mission-driven, but I think there’s a desire to really understand the “why” behind things. And of our communication mantras is we never talk about the “what” without the “why.” I think there’s a desire to — the idea that, well, there’s a hierarchy, or “My boss told me this is what we’re going to do” or — that, I think, increasingly moving away, and people, they don’t just want to do because someone with formal authority told them to do it. They want do it because they understand why it matters, why it ties the mission. And I think that that forces leaders to bring more of the “why” into how we communicate and motivate people.
So those are two of things I see, and then, you know, the third I think is just flexibility. I — and this is true of all of us, but particularly the younger — I think they’re looking for flexibility and they want and choices. And it’s not always easy and feasible to provide ultimate flexibility, but this is I try and orient it more to agility. How we have approaches and principles and be committed to things, also know when to question, and when to actually pivot?
SM: Yeah. Anjali, can you share few examples of ways that you at Vimeo have to really be proactive when it comes to addressing or understanding what next generation of employees are going to want, either terms of purpose or in terms of benefits or in terms flexibility? Are there programs or processes you’ve put in that really speak to this big sea change we’re seeing in terms of values the workforce?
AS: Firstly, of course, it’s all about listening, right? And I think, like many organizations, way we’ve tried to listen and understand our workforce is similar: it’s Q and As and engagement surveys, and like that. And some of the things that we’ve done, we have people and culture NPS, net promoter score, the same way we have for our users, for our teams. But I would say one of the things that we’ve really to do is appreciate that when we get inputs our employees, 1,300 employees … you can’t look at averages. You can’t look at it all in totality and try and pull out an “Oh, this is how everybody’s feeling.” Because what you actually — when really dig into it and truly listen and do groups and talk to people — what you’ll find is actually there’s very different and desires among your employees. And so, I think for us, what we’ve really just tried do is have a bunch of different listening mechanisms and then resist the urge to pull, like, “Oh, this is what everyone’s feeling, let’s do this thing as the action.” And it’s hard, and we’re still kind of figuring out, but I will tell you, some of the things we’ve heard from employees have changed our approach to work or travel or even things like our approach compensation or our approach to DE and I. So think it’s more just like I said, that agile listening, really understanding what’s happening, but not treating everything as, like, an or the same. And for us, it’s been particularly stark because have offices and teams in so many different countries and the differences, they’re substantial. They’re really substantial, the way we solve different things. And we used to have a very, sort of, “One Vimeo” approach in the name of consistency and fairness, and what we found is we to be more localized. We really do. We have to design mechanisms to our teams in a very different way, because their experiences and the world around them is different.
So I think that’s definitely been one, and will tell you, it has involved a lot of — as executive team and leadership team — it’s involved a lot of trying things, not working, and changing them. And a great example is our Q A. I feel like every leader I know has a perspective on whether do open Q and A or anonymous Q and A, or real-time Q and A. We’ve our approach there multiple times, and I know we will again, because we’re figuring out the right way to listen and have a dialogue a very diverse workforce.
SM: I want to stay on to the workplace for just another moment, because another thing I hear from CEOs my generation and older is a concern about making sure that we are not just providing our youngest with the flexibility and the purpose that they need, but the training and the wisdom that comes, oftentimes, from being in close to a mentor or to somebody who’s done the job for many more years. What your philosophy and take on making sure that knowledge transfer is happening?
AS: think it’s a major challenge that I don’t know that everyone will sort of a solution for. I think about that all the time. We a very distributed workforce at Vimeo. We have people in eight countries. My executive team is entirely distributed. So I’ve really the benefits of being able to have a distributed workforce and being able to attract talent and just more inclusive. On the flip side, there’s definitely, I think, a lack of the same kinds learning opportunities and mentorship, particularly for the youngest folks that entering the workforce. So I think it’s a challenge. One of the approaches we’ve been taking, and what’s sort of nice, is we’re modeling it the top. So if my entire executive team is distributed, that means I to learn how to provide real-time feedback, mentorship and development for a whole of new executives who have just joined. We have sort of changed up the executive team entirely in the last twelve months. So I’ve had to deal with the challenges. And we’ve had to literally — we call it our operating — we’ve had to design an operating system, as an executive team, for how we’re going to work in that environment. How do we share real-time feedback? How do create the right communication loops? And so I think, my perspective, it’s more we have to be able do it ourselves and model it and then, I think it’s more proven mechanism for young people. I will say, like many companies … do believe that in-person collaboration is really important for learning. We have — we bring people into an office. If you’re remote, we ask to come in and spend time in a room with team, do social activities, all of those things. I don’t they will go away, nor do I think they should. But, you know, candidly, it’s an area that I don’t we’ve really figured out perfectly and I think it’s really that as leaders, we do that, so that this generation is able to get the same growth opportunities we all had.
SM: Well, and it’s interesting — the tools that you at the very beginning of our conversation, around video, can be really there. I’ve heard of a number of organizations that really encouraged their young people to present, as a of having to go out and find the information they need. And then, because we have video available to us now, you know, they have an to share their ideas with a large group of people, but first, kind of going the fact-finding and the research, and then sharing their ideas. In an comment, you talked a little bit about mental illness and the different things that are bringing to work, whether it is, you know, exhaustion, burnout. During Black Lives Matter protests, we had a lot of people coming the office feeling trauma, and feeling really personal issues bubble to surface. I’m wondering if you can share a little about how you deal with this increasing personal — know, when people bring their whole selves to the office, we encourage, sometimes, they bring things, parts of themselves that are challenging.
AS: Yeah … I’ve thought the responsibility of a leader is to empower people to do their work and the responsibility of a company is to empower our people to do best work. And so, of course, we have a real role to play supporting things like mental-health issues or burnout. And, you know, the way I think, many companies, the way we initially probably sought to that was more, you know, you’re seeing a problem you’re reacting by trying to provide mental-health resources or or time off. And, I think — and empathy, just empathy. I that’s really important. And I always say, to so many of our … just care. If we just care, a lot of things get easier. You don’t to design a hundred mechanisms if you just have the people in place who care. At the same time, I will say we’re realizing now, in sort of this next phase, is that that’s a approach and actually the root cause — that we can control Vimeo — the root cause of a lot of and burnout is sometimes people either don’t have enough … focus, we’re asking people do too many things or they don’t feel like they’re supported doing those things. And that, I think, is actually where should be spending more time — is how do we actually set right prioritization and focus. There’s some issue there, right? There’s a cause there that’s a “Oh, I feel like I’m stressed because there’s too much on. I don’t feel equipped to solve it.” Then, should get into the “What is the detail there, and we need to do things differently?” And, you know, one of our at Vimeo this year was “Do less, better.”
SM: As the economy starts to, maybe, sideways, do you think that there are going to be stakeholders who say, you know, “Out with of this touchy-feely, the workplace-as-a-family stuff. Where are my results?”
AS: Absolutely. I think the pendulum has swung pretty clearly. I mean, I work in SAS, as a service, so we already went from “growth at cost” to “profitability,” you know, pendulum swing. My perspective on this — and it hasn’t changed — think the best leaders and cultures deliver results and treat people well. And I actually think, if you people well, with kindness and empathy, you will get better results. so, you know, for me, I think what I observed over the few years is — that part, I think, hasn’t and shouldn’t change. There were, I think, a lot of times when companies, we did things because maybe was lip service or we felt pressured. And that’s not going be sustainable. But that’s not what — ultimately, that’s not what people need, in any case. So, know, I sort of see it as — the way channel how you are caring towards your employees and how you are empathetic, always should be service of helping people do their best work, which will results, which will be good for the bottom line. And you have to believe that. You have be committed to that and if you use that in your decision-making, it should not be a trade-off. are not mutually exclusive things.
SM: Anjali, how have been taking care of yourself during this period of tremendous and change, but also growth? You mentioned you just had a baby. There’s a on your shoulders. How, as a leader, do you practice some self-care or how do make sure that you’re getting the balance you need to be the effective leader you can be?
AS: I think — recently, the phrase I use a to myself is “two things can be true, both can be true.” say this a lot. And for me, I think of as, like, “This job is hard, and it’s gotten harder.” went public at the height of the pandemic and year, market volatility has been tremendous. You know, we’re going through a ton with post-pandemic, we have a in Ukraine going through a war — all these things have happened. And so, it’s a hard job, and it’s an privileged job. It’s a gift, right? And so, I think for me, it’s of acknowledging both of those things has helped me lot. The way I’ve tried to kind of lead, has been — it’s always been this way, is, for me, it’s I have to have passion. I to have passion. I have to believe so deeply that Vimeo is doing is important and matters for the world. if I have passion, I have energy and then I will — can kind of move through anything. I have to find joy my team. I feel like, especially in hard times, I look back my career and actually, some of my most fulfilling times in work were when — in hardest business situations. But it’s because it brought a of people together all on one team, and so I that’s been, you know, a really big part of it. then, yeah, like, you have to be a little selfish sometimes, and care of yourself. And I am really fortunate. I think have a great support network around me and I … My husband and I have a deal, where on Sundays, disappear for a couple of hours. I just disappear and I around the city and I listen to my music and do whatever I need to do, that’s really important.
SM: So you talked about how hybrid work is to look very different in the future than how we describe today. It’s basically in office a couple of days, from home a couple of other days. Tell us little bit more about what you could potentially see that evolving into.
AS: I think the of an office as a time and place completely goes away. And I think it’s really going to people are going to want to work from anywhere, anywhere the world. Even the concept of where you’re located going to change. And then the idea of like “I’m to work on this time zone” or “I’m going to attend this meeting that’s scheduled this date” — I think that’s going to go away. And I think what you’re going to find more and more work, particularly from knowledge workers, is to be done anywhere, anytime. Communication and collaboration will happen asynchronously and we will be using tools technology — whether it’s video, whether it’s AI — to basically enable at scale among many people, anywhere in the world. And I think leadership, leaders are going to look different. Because think it’s going to require — if you think about the skill to be a global CEO 30 years ago versus what that require now — I think in the future … the skill is going to be like, “How do you communicate with diverse, global audiences and employees across time in a way that is effective, that provides context and alignment at scale? How do you programs, whether it’s compensation, whether it’s, you know, training?” All of that is going look very different. But I think the ultimate thing you’ll see is … there were these constraints that we’ve lived with, whether it time or place or budget, in some cases. And I think those are going to go away. And the promise is that if we are flexible and smart and we technology in the right way, that we’ll actually come away a much evolved and efficient workforce.
SM: Well, I think you just showed us some the passion that you’ve talked about as being the thing that gives you energy lead that organization of 1,300 people worldwide. Anjali, thank you so much for here today.
AS: Thank you. This was great.