Stephanie Mehta: Welcome, Anjali. I’m so glad you’re with us today.
Anjali Sud: Thank you, it is great to be here.
SM: At Vimeo, you a workforce of 1,300 people worldwide — you have creatives, you have finance people, you technologists. So I’m going to start with a really question: what was it like to manage this diverse through a global pandemic, a racial reckoning and a very fraught return office?
AS: Oh, it was a breeze, Stephanie. No, it was really challenging. You know, think the only constant has been change. And as a leader, you obviously — you have workforce that’s looking for certainty, and they’re looking to control what’s around them. And I think what we all found, leaders, no matter what company you were … responsible for, was that couldn’t offer certainty, and you couldn’t always control the environment and the things around you. And so, know, for me, it was really about agility. How do we stay flexible as team? How do we communicate in real time and keep people informed as we try and through things? And then, also just how do we lead with more humanity? You know, Vimeo, one of the things I’ve really learned over the last few years we each experience the world so differently. We have employees are remote. We have an incredible team in Ukraine … who are on the front lines, who are literally at war. On the other hand, you have people different parts of the world who are experiencing mental-health or burnout, and so I think it was really — the hardest part was not being able to give certainty, not being able to just apply a one-size-fits-all rule for everyone. But I ultimately it forced us, as a company, to build more trust, because to agile and flexible, and to lead with humanity, you to trust each other. And so, I’m sort of optimistic actually we’re emerging from this time with a culture is more flexible and nimble, and also, hopefully, has trust.
SM: Can you give an example of something that put into place, perhaps during the pandemic, to enhance communications or build or create a greater sense of community or even to communicate that there is no certainty, that a muscle that you think you’ll continue to use the organization far into the future?
AS: There’s a couple of things that did. One — and we are a video platform, so I obviously have to about video, but I mean this sincerely — one the hardest parts, when you’re all sort of disparate, is you lose context and you lose nuance when communicate. And we did make a concerted effort to move away from and chat, text-based communication, as much as possible, and actually try, particularly our leadership team, when we were communicating, to do it with your face, and your and your body and your emotions. And we did that live streaming a lot of communications, recording a lot of videos. We sent video messages. So I send … I record my and just send a note out to people. Every new hire a video to welcome and introduce themselves. A lot of meetings we’ve actually replaced with just quick video presentations. actually, what that really did was allow the humanity and the context to come through and I think helped us a lot to, kind of, stay close. So that was one, think, really important thing.
Another important thing is, I think, just mechanisms to make it easier to talk about when things aren’t working, a critical part of being agile is recognizing we have an area isn’t working. And so one of the things that we do at is we try — I do this in all of town halls, we do it in a lot of meetings — always talk about what’s working, what are our top things, and what isn’t working — yet. And we’ve kind of created, I think, a framework that sort takes the stigma away from talking about what’s not working. And when make that normalized and comfortable for people, I feel like it’s allowed us to be open, as an organization, about what do we need to change, what do we to pivot. And both of those, being more video-first in our communication and being more transparent and what’s not working, I think has been really helpful, and certainly something we’re carrying forward.
SM: I love advice about being video-first. So many of our members our workforce live in a video world. They’re used to video as a of communication. Which brings me to my next question. You’ve talked about how organization has changed. How do you see the workforce changing? is different with the young millennials, and even, now, the first of Gen Z coming into the workplace?
AS: I think it’s incredibly different. And, know, one of the things that we think about at a lot is a lot of the mechanisms and communication modes that we use today, they’re really antiquated. They were designed for a different environment and a totally different generation. But I see a of differences. One of them, I think, is the line between your life and work life is definitely blending. … If you think about your life — look at TikTok. This generation is used consuming content, learning, engaging, in a very specific way. And if they then have to come to and to be trained on a job, read a 300-page manual? Like, it’s not to happen, right? Or if you miss the meeting, you have to watch the Zoom recording of a three-hour meeting — that’s just going to happen. And so I think that there is sort of this — you know, we talk about the “consumerization of enterprise.” Those are fancy words for saying the way … we communicate and interact our personal lives is going to translate to work. so I definitely think that’s an area of opportunity.
The other thing see from sort of the generation, the newest generation coming into the workforce, is of, of course mission-driven, but I think there’s a desire really understand the “why” behind things. And one of our mantras is we never talk about the “what” without “why.” And I think there’s a desire to — idea that, well, there’s a hierarchy, or “My boss told me that this is what we’re going do” or — that, I think, is increasingly moving away, and people, they don’t just want to something because someone with formal authority told them to do it. They want to do because they understand why it matters, why it ties to the mission. And I think that that forces to really bring more of the “why” into how we communicate and motivate people.
So those two of the things I see, and then, you know, the third I think is just flexibility. I — and this is true of all of us, but particularly younger generation — I think they’re looking for flexibility and want options and choices. And it’s not always easy and feasible provide ultimate flexibility, but this is where I try and orient it more to agility. How we have approaches and principles and be committed to things, also know when to question, and when to actually pivot?
SM: Yeah. Anjali, can share a few examples of ways that you at Vimeo have tried to be proactive when it comes to addressing or understanding what your next generation of employees are to want, either in terms of purpose or in of benefits or in terms of flexibility? Are there programs or processes you’ve in place that really speak to this big sea change we’re seeing terms of values from the workforce?
AS: Firstly, of course, it’s all about listening, right? And think, like many organizations, the way we’ve tried to listen and understand our workforce very similar: it’s Q and As and engagement surveys, and things like that. And some of the that we’ve done, we have a people and culture NPS, net promoter score, the same we have for our users, for our internal teams. But I would say one the things that we’ve really tried to do is that when we get inputs from our employees, 1,300 … you can’t look at the averages. You can’t look at it all in totality and try pull out an obvious “Oh, this is how everybody’s feeling.” Because what you actually — when you dig into it and truly listen and do focus groups and talk people — what you’ll find is actually there’s very different experiences desires among your employees. And so, I think for us, what we’ve really just tried to do is have bunch of different listening mechanisms and then resist the urge to pull, like, “Oh, this is what everyone’s feeling, let’s just do this thing the action.” And it’s hard, and we’re still kind figuring it out, but I will tell you, some the things that we’ve heard from employees have changed approach to hybrid work or travel or even things like our to compensation or our approach to DE and I. I think it’s more just like I said, that listening, constantly really understanding what’s happening, but not treating everything as, like, average or the same. And for us, it’s been particularly because we have offices and teams in so many different countries and differences, they’re substantial. They’re really substantial, about the way we solve different things. we used to have a very, sort of, “One Vimeo” approach in the name of consistency and fairness, and what we found is have to be more localized. We really do. We to design mechanisms to support our teams in a very different way, their experiences and the world around them is quite different.
So I that’s definitely been one, and I will tell you, it involved a lot of — as an executive team and team — it’s involved a lot of trying things, it working, and changing them. And a great example is Q and A. I feel like every leader I has a perspective on whether they do open Q and A or anonymous Q A, or real-time Q and A. We’ve changed our there multiple times, and I know we will again, because we’re figuring out the right way to listen and have a dialogue with a diverse workforce.
SM: I want to stay on newcomers the workplace for just another moment, because another thing I hear from CEOs of my and older is a concern about making sure that are not just providing our youngest employees with the flexibility and purpose that they need, but also the training and the wisdom comes, oftentimes, from being in close proximity to a or to somebody who’s done the job for many more years. is your philosophy and take on making sure that transfer is happening?
AS: I think it’s a major challenge that I don’t know that will sort of have a solution for. I think that all the time. We have a very distributed at Vimeo. We have people in over eight countries. My executive team entirely distributed. So I’ve really realized the benefits of being able to have a distributed workforce being able to attract talent and just be more inclusive. the flip side, there’s definitely, I think, a lack the same kinds of learning opportunities and mentorship, particularly the youngest folks that are entering the workforce. So I think it’s a challenge. One of the approaches we’ve been taking, and what’s sort of nice, is we’re modeling it at the top. So my entire executive team is distributed, that means I have to how to provide real-time feedback, mentorship and development for a whole set of executives who have just joined. We have sort of changed the executive team almost entirely in the last twelve months. So I’ve had to deal with the same challenges. we’ve had to literally — we call it our operating — we’ve had to design an operating system, as an executive team, for how we’re going to work in that environment. How do we share real-time feedback? How do we create the communication loops? And so I think, from my perspective, it’s more we have to able to do it ourselves and model it and then, think it’s a more proven mechanism for young people. I will say, many companies … I do believe that in-person collaboration is really important for learning. We do have — bring people into an office. If you’re remote, we folks to come in and spend time in a with their team, do social activities, all of those things. don’t think they will go away, nor do I think should. But, you know, candidly, it’s an area that don’t think we’ve really figured out perfectly and I it’s really critical that as leaders, we do that, so that this next generation is able to get same growth opportunities that we all had.
SM: Well, and it’s interesting — the tools that you mentioned the very beginning of our conversation, around video, can be really helpful there. I’ve heard of number of organizations that have really encouraged their young to present, as a way of having to go out find the information they need. And then, because we have video tools to us now, you know, they have an opportunity to share their ideas with large group of people, but first, kind of going the fact-finding and the research, and then sharing their ideas. an earlier comment, you talked a little bit about illness and the different things that people are bringing to work, whether it is, know, exhaustion, burnout. During the Black Lives Matter protests, we had a lot of people coming to office feeling trauma, and feeling really personal issues bubble to the surface. I’m wondering you can share a little bit about how you deal with increasing personal — you know, when people bring their selves to the office, which we encourage, sometimes, they things, parts of themselves that are challenging.
AS: Yeah … I’ve always thought responsibility of a leader is to empower people to do their best work and responsibility of a company is to empower our people to do their work. And so, of course, we have a real role to play in supporting things mental-health issues or burnout. And, you know, the way I think, like companies, the way we initially probably sought to do that was more, you know, you’re a problem and you’re reacting by trying to provide mental-health or support or time off. And, I think — empathy, just empathy. I think that’s really important. And I always say, so many of our managers … just care. If we care, a lot of things get easier. You don’t to design a hundred mechanisms if you just have the right people place who care. At the same time, I will say what we’re now, in sort of this next phase, is that that’s a reactive and actually the root cause — that we can control at Vimeo — the cause of a lot of stress and burnout is sometimes people either don’t enough … focus, we’re asking people to do too many or they don’t feel like they’re supported in doing those things. And that, I think, actually where we should be spending more time — is how do we actually set the prioritization and focus. There’s some issue there, right? There’s a cause there that’s a “Oh, I feel like I’m because there’s too much going on. I don’t feel to solve it.” Then, we should get into the “What is detail there, and do we need to do things differently?” And, you know, one of our themes at this year was “Do less, better.”
SM: As the starts to, maybe, move sideways, do you think that are going to be stakeholders who say, you know, “Out all of this touchy-feely, the workplace-as-a-family stuff. Where are results?”
AS: Absolutely. I think the pendulum has already swung clearly. I mean, I work in SAS, software as service, so we already went from “growth at all cost” “profitability,” you know, pendulum swing. My perspective on this — and it hasn’t changed — think the best leaders and cultures deliver results and treat people well. And I actually think, if treat people well, with kindness and empathy, you will better results. And so, you know, for me, I think I observed over the last few years is — part, I think, hasn’t changed and shouldn’t change. There were, I think, a lot times when companies, we did things because maybe it was lip service or we pressured. And that’s not going to be sustainable. But that’s not what — ultimately, that’s not what need, in any case. So, you know, I sort of see it as — the you channel how you are caring towards your employees and you are empathetic, always should be in service of people do their best work, which will deliver results, which be good for the bottom line. And you have to that. You have to be committed to that and if you that consistently in your decision-making, it should not be trade-off. These are not mutually exclusive things.
SM: Anjali, how have you been care of yourself during this period of tremendous turmoil and change, but also growth? You mentioned you just had baby. There’s a lot on your shoulders. How, as leader, do you practice some self-care or how do you make sure you’re getting the balance you need to be the most leader you can be?
AS: I think — recently, the phrase use a lot to myself is “two things can be true, both be true.” I say this a lot. And for me, I think of it as, like, “This job hard, and it’s gotten harder.” We went public at the height of the pandemic and last year, volatility has been tremendous. You know, we’re obviously going through ton with post-pandemic, we have a team in Ukraine through a war — all these things that have happened. And so, it’s a hard job, it’s an incredibly privileged job. It’s a gift, right? And so, think for me, it’s sort of acknowledging both of things has helped me a lot. The way I’ve to kind of lead, has been — it’s always this way, which is, for me, it’s I have have passion. I have to have passion. I have to believe so deeply that what Vimeo is doing important and matters for the world. And if I have passion, I have energy and then I — I can kind of move through anything. I have to joy in my team. I feel like, especially in hard times, I back at my career and actually, some of my most fulfilling in work were when — in the hardest business situations. But it’s because it brought a group people together all on one team, and so I think that’s been, you know, a really big of it. And then, yeah, like, you have to be little selfish sometimes, and take care of yourself. And I am really fortunate. I I have a great support network around me and I do … husband and I have a deal, where on Sundays, I disappear for a couple hours. I just disappear and I walk around the city and I listen to music and do whatever I need to do, and that’s really important.
SM: So you talked how hybrid work is going to look very different in the future than we describe it today. It’s basically in office a couple of days, work from a couple of other days. Tell us a little more about what you could potentially see that evolving into.
AS: think the idea of an office as a time place completely goes away. And I think it’s really going to be people are going to want to work anywhere, anywhere in the world. Even the concept of where you’re located is going change. And then the idea of like “I’m going to work on this zone” or “I’m going to attend this meeting that’s scheduled on this date” — I think that’s going go away. And I think what you’re going to is more and more work, particularly from knowledge workers, is going to done anywhere, anytime. Communication and collaboration will happen asynchronously and we will be using and technology — whether it’s video, whether it’s AI — basically enable that at scale among many people, anywhere the world. And then I think leadership, leaders are to look different. Because I think it’s going to require — you think about the skill set to be a global 30 years ago versus what that will require now — I think in the … the skill set is going to be like, “How do communicate with diverse, global audiences and employees across time zones in a that is effective, that provides context and alignment at scale? How do organize programs, whether it’s compensation, whether it’s, you know, training?” All of that is going to look different. But I think the ultimate thing you’ll see is … there were these constraints that we’ve lived with, whether was time or place or budget, in some cases. I think those constraints are going to go away. the promise is that if we are flexible and and we use technology in the right way, that we’ll come away a much more evolved and efficient workforce.
SM: Well, I think you just showed some of the passion that you’ve talked about as being the thing that gives you energy to lead organization of 1,300 people worldwide. Anjali, thank you so much being here today.
AS: Thank you. This was great.