Stephanie Mehta: Welcome, Anjali. I’m so you’re here with us today.
Anjali Sud: Thank you, it is great be here.
SM: At Vimeo, you lead a workforce of 1,300 worldwide — you have creatives, you have finance people, have technologists. So I’m going to start with a really easy question: was it like to manage this diverse workforce through a pandemic, a racial reckoning and a very fraught return to office?
AS: Oh, it was breeze, Stephanie. No, it was really challenging. You know, think the only constant has been change. And as a leader, obviously — you have a workforce that’s looking for certainty, they’re looking to control what’s happening around them. And I what we all found, as leaders, no matter what you were … responsible for, was that you couldn’t offer certainty, you couldn’t always control the environment and the things you. And so, you know, for me, it was really agility. How do we stay flexible as a team? How do we communicate in real time and keep informed as we try and move through things? And then, also just how do we lead more humanity? You know, for Vimeo, one of the things I’ve really learned over the last years is we each experience the world so differently. We have employees are remote. We have an incredible team in Ukraine … employees are on the front lines, who are literally at war. the other hand, you have people in different parts of the who are experiencing mental-health challenges or burnout, and so I think it really just — the hardest part was not being able give everyone certainty, not being able to just apply a one-size-fits-all rule for everyone. I ultimately think it forced us, as a company, to build more trust, because to agile and flexible, and to lead with humanity, you have to trust each other. so, I’m sort of optimistic that actually we’re emerging from this time with culture that is more flexible and nimble, and also, hopefully, more trust.
SM: Can you give an example of that you put into place, perhaps during the pandemic, to enhance communications or build trust or create greater sense of community or even to communicate that there is no certainty, that a muscle that you think you’ll continue to use the organization far into the future?
AS: There’s a of things that we did. One — and we a video platform, so I obviously have to talk video, but I mean this sincerely — one of hardest parts, when you’re all sort of disparate, is you lose and you lose nuance when you communicate. And we did make a effort to move away from email and chat, text-based communication, as as possible, and actually try, particularly for our leadership team, when were communicating, to do it with your face, and your hands your body and your emotions. And we did that through live streaming a of communications, recording a lot of videos. We sent asynchronous messages. So I send … I record my screen and send a note out to people. Every new hire does video to welcome and introduce themselves. A lot of our we’ve actually replaced with just quick video presentations. And actually, what that really did was allow the and the context to come through and I think that helped us a lot to, of, stay close. So that was one, I think, really thing.
Another important thing is, I think, just creating mechanisms to make easier to talk about when things aren’t working, because critical part of being agile is recognizing we have an that isn’t working. And so one of the things that do at Vimeo is we try — I do this in all of town halls, we do it in a lot of meetings — is always about what’s working, what are our top three things, and isn’t working — yet. And we’ve kind of created, I think, a framework that of takes the stigma away from talking about what’s not working. And when you make that normalized and for people, I feel like it’s allowed us to be open, as an organization, about what do we need change, what do we need to pivot. And both those, being more video-first in our communication and being more transparent and what’s not working, I think has been really helpful, certainly something we’re carrying forward.
SM: I love that about being video-first. So many of our members of our workforce in a video world. They’re used to video as a means of communication. Which brings me to next question. You’ve talked about how the organization has changed. do you see the workforce changing? What is different with young millennials, and even, now, the first wave of Z coming into the workplace?
AS: I think it’s incredibly different. And, you know, one the things that we think about at Vimeo a lot is a lot of the mechanisms communication modes that we still use today, they’re really antiquated. were designed for a totally different environment and a totally different generation. But I see a of differences. One of them, I think, is the line between your personal life and work is definitely blending. … If you think about your personal life — look at TikTok. This generation used to consuming content, learning, engaging, in a very specific way. And if then have to come to work and to be trained on a job, read 300-page manual? Like, it’s not going to happen, right? Or if you miss the meeting, and you have watch the Zoom recording of a three-hour meeting — that’s just going to happen. And so I think that there is definitely sort of — you know, we talk about the “consumerization of enterprise.” Those are just fancy for saying the way … we communicate and interact in our lives is going to translate to work. And so I think that’s an area of opportunity.
The other thing I see from of the generation, the newest generation coming into the workforce, sort of, of course mission-driven, but I think there’s desire to really understand the “why” behind things. And of our communication mantras is we never talk about “what” without the “why.” And I think there’s a desire — the idea that, well, there’s a hierarchy, or “My told me that this is what we’re going to do” or — that, think, is increasingly moving away, and people, they don’t just want to do something because someone with authority told them to do it. They want to do it because they understand it matters, why it ties to the mission. And I think that that leaders to really bring more of the “why” into how we and motivate people.
So those are two of the things I see, and then, you know, third I think is just flexibility. I think — and this is true of all of us, particularly the younger generation — I think they’re looking for flexibility and they options and choices. And it’s not always easy and feasible to provide ultimate flexibility, but this where I try and orient it more to agility. How can have approaches and principles and be committed to things, but also know when question, and when to actually pivot?
SM: Yeah. Anjali, can you share a few of ways that you at Vimeo have tried to really be when it comes to addressing or understanding what your generation of employees are going to want, either in terms of purpose in terms of benefits or in terms of flexibility? Are there or processes you’ve put in place that really speak to this big sea change we’re seeing terms of values from the workforce?
AS: Firstly, of course, it’s all listening, right? And I think, like many organizations, the way we’ve to listen and understand our workforce is very similar: it’s and As and engagement surveys, and things like that. And of the things that we’ve done, we have a and culture NPS, net promoter score, the same way we have for our users, our internal teams. But I would say one of the things that we’ve really tried to do appreciate that when we get inputs from our employees, 1,300 employees … you can’t look at the averages. can’t look at it all in totality and try and pull out an obvious “Oh, this is everybody’s feeling.” Because what you actually — when you really into it and truly listen and do focus groups and talk to — what you’ll find is actually there’s very different and desires among your employees. And so, I think for us, what we’ve just tried to do is have a bunch of different listening mechanisms and resist the urge to conveniently pull, like, “Oh, this is what everyone’s feeling, let’s just do thing as the action.” And it’s hard, and we’re still kind of it out, but I will tell you, some of the things we’ve heard from employees have changed our approach to hybrid work or or even things like our approach to compensation or our approach to DE and I. So I it’s more just like I said, that agile listening, constantly really understanding what’s happening, but treating everything as, like, an average or the same. And for us, it’s been particularly because we have offices and teams in so many countries and the differences, they’re substantial. They’re really substantial, about the way we solve things. And we used to have a very, sort of, “One Vimeo” global approach the name of consistency and fairness, and what we found is we have to be more localized. We do. We have to design mechanisms to support our in a very different way, because their experiences and the world around them quite different.
So I think that’s definitely been one, I will tell you, it has involved a lot — as an executive team and leadership team — it’s involved a lot trying things, it not working, and changing them. And a example is our Q and A. I feel like leader I know has a perspective on whether they do open and A or anonymous Q and A, or real-time and A. We’ve changed our approach there multiple times, and I know will again, because we’re still figuring out the right way to listen and have a with a very diverse workforce.
SM: I want to stay on to the workplace for just another moment, because another I hear from CEOs of my generation and older is a concern about making sure that we not just providing our youngest employees with the flexibility and the purpose that need, but also the training and the wisdom that comes, oftentimes, from being in close to a mentor or to somebody who’s done the job for more years. What is your philosophy and take on making sure that knowledge transfer happening?
AS: I think it’s a major challenge that I don’t know that everyone will of have a solution for. I think about that all the time. have a very distributed workforce at Vimeo. We have people in over eight countries. My executive team entirely distributed. So I’ve really realized the benefits of being able to have a workforce and being able to attract talent and just be more inclusive. On the side, there’s definitely, I think, a lack of the same of learning opportunities and mentorship, particularly for the youngest folks that entering the workforce. So I think it’s a challenge. of the approaches that we’ve been taking, and what’s of nice, is we’re modeling it at the top. So if my entire executive is distributed, that means I have to learn how to provide real-time feedback, mentorship and for a whole set of new executives who have just joined. We have sort of changed the executive team almost entirely in the last twelve months. So I’ve had to deal with same challenges. And we’ve had to literally — we call it our operating system — we’ve had design an operating system, as an executive team, for we’re going to work together in that environment. How do share real-time feedback? How do we create the right communication loops? And so I think, from perspective, it’s more we have to be able to it ourselves and model it and then, I think it’s a more mechanism for young people. I will say, like many companies … I do believe that in-person collaboration really important for learning. We do have — we bring people into an office. If you’re remote, ask folks to come in and spend time in room with their team, do social activities, all of things. I don’t think they will go away, nor do think they should. But, you know, candidly, it’s an that I don’t think we’ve really figured out perfectly and I think it’s critical that as leaders, we do that, so that next generation is able to get the same growth opportunities that we had.
SM: Well, and it’s interesting — the tools that you mentioned the very beginning of our conversation, around video, can be really there. I’ve heard of a number of organizations that have really encouraged young people to present, as a way of having to out and find the information they need. And then, because we have video available to us now, you know, they have an to share their ideas with a large group of people, but first, of going through the fact-finding and the research, and then sharing their ideas. In an earlier comment, talked a little bit about mental illness and the different things that people are bringing work, whether it is, you know, exhaustion, burnout. During Black Lives Matter protests, we had a lot of people to the office feeling trauma, and feeling really personal bubble to the surface. I’m wondering if you can share a little bit about you deal with this increasing personal — you know, when bring their whole selves to the office, which we encourage, sometimes, they bring things, parts of themselves are challenging.
AS: Yeah … I’ve always thought the responsibility of a leader is empower people to do their best work and the responsibility of a company is empower our people to do their best work. And so, of course, we have a role to play in supporting things like mental-health issues or burnout. And, you know, way I think, like many companies, the way we initially sought to do that was more, you know, you’re seeing a and you’re reacting by trying to provide mental-health resources support or time off. And, I think — and empathy, just empathy. think that’s really important. And I always say, to many of our managers … just care. If we just care, lot of things get easier. You don’t have to a hundred mechanisms if you just have the right people place who care. At the same time, I will say what we’re now, in sort of this next phase, is that that’s a approach and actually the root cause — that we can at Vimeo — the root cause of a lot stress and burnout is sometimes people either don’t have enough … focus, we’re people to do too many things or they don’t feel like they’re in doing those things. And that, I think, is where we should be spending more time — is how do we actually set right prioritization and focus. There’s some issue there, right? There’s a root there that’s a “Oh, I feel like I’m stressed because there’s much going on. I don’t feel equipped to solve it.” Then, should get into the “What is the detail there, do we need to do things differently?” And, you know, one of our themes at this year was “Do less, better.”
SM: As the starts to, maybe, move sideways, do you think that there going to be stakeholders who say, you know, “Out with all of touchy-feely, the workplace-as-a-family stuff. Where are my results?”
AS: Absolutely. I think the pendulum already swung pretty clearly. I mean, I work in SAS, software as a service, so already went from “growth at all cost” to “profitability,” you know, pendulum swing. My perspective this — and it hasn’t changed — I think the best leaders cultures deliver results and treat people well. And I actually think, if treat people well, with kindness and empathy, you will get results. And so, you know, for me, I think what observed over the last few years is — that part, I think, hasn’t and shouldn’t change. There were, I think, a lot of when companies, we did things because maybe it was service or we felt pressured. And that’s not going to sustainable. But that’s not what — ultimately, that’s not what people need, any case. So, you know, I sort of see it as — the way you how you are caring towards your employees and how you are empathetic, always should be service of helping people do their best work, which will deliver results, will be good for the bottom line. And you have to believe that. You have to be committed that and if you use that consistently in your decision-making, it should not be a trade-off. are not mutually exclusive things.
SM: Anjali, how have you been taking care of during this period of tremendous turmoil and change, but growth? You mentioned you just had a baby. There’s a lot on your shoulders. How, a leader, do you practice some self-care or how do you make sure that you’re getting the balance need to be the most effective leader you can be?
AS: think — recently, the phrase I use a lot to is “two things can be true, both can be true.” I this a lot. And for me, I think of it as, like, “This is hard, and it’s gotten harder.” We went public at the height the pandemic and last year, market volatility has been tremendous. You know, we’re obviously going through a with post-pandemic, we have a team in Ukraine going through a war — all these that have happened. And so, it’s a hard job, and it’s an incredibly privileged job. It’s gift, right? And so, I think for me, it’s of acknowledging both of those things has helped me a lot. way I’ve tried to kind of lead, has been — it’s always this way, which is, for me, it’s I have to have passion. I have to have passion. I to believe so deeply that what Vimeo is doing is important and matters for the world. And I have passion, I have energy and then I will — I kind of move through anything. I have to find joy my team. I feel like, especially in hard times, I look back at my career and actually, of my most fulfilling times in work were when — in the business situations. But it’s because it brought a group of together all on one team, and so I think that’s been, you know, a big part of it. And then, yeah, like, you to be a little selfish sometimes, and take care of yourself. And I am really fortunate. think I have a great support network around me and I do … My and I have a deal, where on Sundays, I disappear for a couple hours. I just disappear and I walk around the city and listen to my music and do whatever I need do, and that’s really important.
SM: So you talked about how hybrid work is going to look different in the future than how we describe it today. It’s basically in office couple of days, work from home a couple of other days. Tell us a little more about what you could potentially see that evolving into.
AS: I think the idea of an office as a and place completely goes away. And I think it’s really going be people are going to want to work from anywhere, anywhere the world. Even the concept of where you’re located going to change. And then the idea of like “I’m going to work on this time zone” “I’m going to attend this meeting that’s scheduled on this date” — think that’s going to go away. And I think what you’re to find is more and more work, particularly from workers, is going to be done anywhere, anytime. Communication and collaboration happen asynchronously and we will be using tools and technology — whether it’s video, whether it’s — to basically enable that at scale among many people, in the world. And then I think leadership, leaders going to look different. Because I think it’s going require — if you think about the skill set to be a global CEO 30 ago versus what that will require now — I think in the future … the set is going to be like, “How do you communicate diverse, global audiences and employees across time zones in a way is effective, that provides context and alignment at scale? How you organize programs, whether it’s compensation, whether it’s, you know, training?” All of that is to look very different. But I think the ultimate thing you’ll see is … there were these constraints that we’ve lived with, whether it was time or place or budget, some cases. And I think those constraints are going to go away. And the is that if we are flexible and smart and we use technology the right way, that we’ll actually come away a much more evolved efficient workforce.
SM: Well, I think you just showed us some of the passion that you’ve talked about being the thing that gives you energy to lead organization of 1,300 people worldwide. Anjali, thank you so for being here today.
AS: Thank you. This was great.