Stephanie Mehta: Welcome, Anjali. I’m so you’re here with us today.
Anjali Sud: Thank you, it is great to here.
SM: At Vimeo, you lead a workforce of 1,300 worldwide — you have creatives, you have finance people, you technologists. So I’m going to start with a really easy question: what was it like manage this diverse workforce through a global pandemic, a reckoning and a very fraught return to office?
AS: Oh, it was a breeze, Stephanie. No, it was challenging. You know, I think the only constant has change. And as a leader, you obviously — you a workforce that’s looking for certainty, and they’re looking to control what’s around them. And I think what we all found, as leaders, no what company you were … responsible for, was that you couldn’t offer certainty, you couldn’t always control the environment and the things around you. And so, you know, me, it was really about agility. How do we stay flexible as a team? How we communicate in real time and keep people informed as we try and move through things? then, also just how do we lead with more humanity? You know, for Vimeo, one of the things I’ve learned over the last few years is we each experience the world so differently. We employees who are remote. We have an incredible team in Ukraine … who are on the front lines, who are literally at war. the other hand, you have people in different parts of the who are experiencing mental-health challenges or burnout, and so I think was really just — the hardest part was not able to give everyone certainty, not being able to just apply a one-size-fits-all rule for everyone. But ultimately think it forced us, as a company, to build more trust, because to be agile flexible, and to lead with humanity, you have to trust each other. so, I’m sort of optimistic that actually we’re emerging from this time with a culture is more flexible and nimble, and also, hopefully, has more trust.
SM: Can you give an example something that you put into place, perhaps during the pandemic, to enhance communications or build trust or create a sense of community or even to communicate that there no certainty, that is a muscle that you think you’ll to use in the organization far into the future?
AS: There’s couple of things that we did. One — and we are video platform, so I obviously have to talk about video, but mean this sincerely — one of the hardest parts, when you’re all sort of disparate, is lose context and you lose nuance when you communicate. we did make a concerted effort to move away from email chat, text-based communication, as much as possible, and actually try, particularly for leadership team, when we were communicating, to do it with your face, and your hands your body and your emotions. And we did that through streaming a lot of communications, recording a lot of videos. We sent asynchronous video messages. So send … I record my screen and just send a note to people. Every new hire does a video to welcome and introduce themselves. A of our meetings we’ve actually replaced with just quick video presentations. And actually, that really did was allow the humanity and the context to come and I think that helped us a lot to, kind of, close. So that was one, I think, really important thing.
Another thing is, I think, just creating mechanisms to make easier to talk about when things aren’t working, because a critical part of being agile recognizing we have an area that isn’t working. And so one of the things we do at Vimeo is we try — I do this all of my town halls, we do it in a of meetings — is always talk about what’s working, what are our top three things, and isn’t working — yet. And we’ve kind of created, I think, a framework that sort of the stigma away from talking about what’s not working. And when you make that normalized and comfortable people, I feel like it’s allowed us to be more open, as organization, about what do we need to change, what do need to pivot. And both of those, being more video-first in our communication and being more and normalizing what’s not working, I think has been helpful, and certainly something we’re carrying forward.
SM: I that advice about being video-first. So many of our of our workforce live in a video world. They’re to video as a means of communication. Which brings to my next question. You’ve talked about how the organization changed. How do you see the workforce changing? What is with the young millennials, and even, now, the first wave of Gen coming into the workplace?
AS: I think it’s incredibly different. And, know, one of the things that we think about at a lot is a lot of the mechanisms and communication modes that still use today, they’re really antiquated. They were designed for a totally environment and a totally different generation. But I see a lot differences. One of them, I think, is the line between your personal life and work is definitely blending. … If you think about your personal life — look at TikTok. This is used to consuming content, learning, engaging, in a very way. And if they then have to come to work and be trained on a job, read a 300-page manual? Like, it’s not to happen, right? Or if you miss the meeting, and you to watch the Zoom recording of a three-hour meeting — that’s just not to happen. And so I think that there is definitely sort of this — know, we talk about the “consumerization of enterprise.” Those are just words for saying the way … we communicate and in our personal lives is going to translate to work. And so I think that’s an area of opportunity.
The other thing see from sort of the generation, the newest generation into the workforce, is sort of, of course mission-driven, but I think there’s a desire to really understand “why” behind things. And one of our communication mantras we never talk about the “what” without the “why.” I think there’s a desire to — the idea that, well, there’s a hierarchy, “My boss told me that this is what we’re going do” or — that, I think, is increasingly moving away, people, they don’t just want to do something because with formal authority told them to do it. They want to it because they understand why it matters, why it ties to the mission. And think that that forces leaders to really bring more the “why” into how we communicate and motivate people.
So those are of the things I see, and then, you know, the I think is just flexibility. I think — and is true of all of us, but particularly the generation — I think they’re looking for flexibility and want options and choices. And it’s not always easy and feasible to ultimate flexibility, but this is where I try and orient more to agility. How can we have approaches and and be committed to things, but also know when to question, when to actually pivot?
SM: Yeah. Anjali, can you a few examples of ways that you at Vimeo have tried to really be proactive when it to addressing or understanding what your next generation of employees are going to want, in terms of purpose or in terms of benefits in terms of flexibility? Are there programs or processes you’ve put in place that really speak to this big change we’re seeing in terms of values from the workforce?
AS: Firstly, course, it’s all about listening, right? And I think, many organizations, the way we’ve tried to listen and our workforce is very similar: it’s Q and As and engagement surveys, things like that. And some of the things that we’ve done, we have a people culture NPS, net promoter score, the same way we have for our users, for our internal teams. I would say one of the things that we’ve really tried to do is appreciate that when we inputs from our employees, 1,300 employees … you can’t look at the averages. You can’t look at it in totality and try and pull out an obvious “Oh, is how everybody’s feeling.” Because what you actually — when you dig into it and truly listen and do focus and talk to people — what you’ll find is actually there’s different experiences and desires among your employees. And so, I think for us, what we’ve really just to do is have a bunch of different listening mechanisms and then resist the urge conveniently pull, like, “Oh, this is what everyone’s feeling, let’s just do this thing the action.” And it’s hard, and we’re still kind figuring it out, but I will tell you, some the things that we’ve heard from employees have changed our to hybrid work or travel or even things like approach to compensation or our approach to DE and I. So I think it’s more like I said, that agile listening, constantly really understanding what’s happening, but not treating everything as, like, an average or same. And for us, it’s been particularly stark because we have offices and teams in so different countries and the differences, they’re substantial. They’re really substantial, the way we solve different things. And we used have a very, sort of, “One Vimeo” global approach in the name of and fairness, and what we found is we have to be more localized. We really do. have to design mechanisms to support our teams in very different way, because their experiences and the world them is quite different.
So I think that’s definitely been one, and I will tell you, it has a lot of — as an executive team and leadership team — it’s involved lot of trying things, it not working, and changing them. And a example is our Q and A. I feel like every leader I know has a perspective on whether do open Q and A or anonymous Q and A, or real-time Q and A. We’ve changed our there multiple times, and I know we will again, because we’re still figuring out the right way to and have a dialogue with a very diverse workforce.
SM: I want stay on newcomers to the workplace for just another moment, another thing I hear from CEOs of my generation older is a concern about making sure that we are not just providing youngest employees with the flexibility and the purpose that they need, but the training and the wisdom that comes, oftentimes, from being in close proximity a mentor or to somebody who’s done the job for many more years. What your philosophy and take on making sure that knowledge transfer is happening?
AS: I think it’s major challenge that I don’t know that everyone will of have a solution for. I think about that the time. We have a very distributed workforce at Vimeo. We have in over eight countries. My executive team is entirely distributed. So I’ve really realized the benefits of able to have a distributed workforce and being able to attract and just be more inclusive. On the flip side, there’s definitely, I think, a lack of the same kinds of opportunities and mentorship, particularly for the youngest folks that are entering the workforce. So I it’s a challenge. One of the approaches that we’ve been taking, and what’s sort nice, is we’re modeling it at the top. So if entire executive team is distributed, that means I have to learn how to provide real-time feedback, mentorship and for a whole set of new executives who have just joined. We have sort of changed up the team almost entirely in the last twelve months. So I’ve had to deal with the same challenges. And we’ve to literally — we call it our operating system — we’ve had to design an operating system, an executive team, for how we’re going to work together in that environment. How do share real-time feedback? How do we create the right communication loops? And so think, from my perspective, it’s more we have to be able to do it ourselves and it and then, I think it’s a more proven for young people. I will say, like many companies … I do believe that in-person is really important for learning. We do have — we bring people into an office. you’re remote, we ask folks to come in and spend time in room with their team, do social activities, all of those things. don’t think they will go away, nor do I think they should. But, know, candidly, it’s an area that I don’t think we’ve really out perfectly and I think it’s really critical that as leaders, do that, so that this next generation is able to get the same growth that we all had.
SM: Well, and it’s interesting — tools that you mentioned at the very beginning of our conversation, around video, be really helpful there. I’ve heard of a number of organizations that really encouraged their young people to present, as a of having to go out and find the information need. And then, because we have video tools available to now, you know, they have an opportunity to share their ideas with a large group people, but first, kind of going through the fact-finding the research, and then sharing their ideas. In an earlier comment, you talked a bit about mental illness and the different things that people are to work, whether it is, you know, exhaustion, burnout. the Black Lives Matter protests, we had a lot of people to the office feeling trauma, and feeling really personal bubble to the surface. I’m wondering if you can share a little bit about you deal with this increasing personal — you know, when people bring their selves to the office, which we encourage, sometimes, they bring things, parts of that are challenging.
AS: Yeah … I’ve always thought the responsibility a leader is to empower people to do their best work the responsibility of a company is to empower our people to their best work. And so, of course, we have a real role to play supporting things like mental-health issues or burnout. And, you know, the way I think, many companies, the way we initially probably sought to do that more, you know, you’re seeing a problem and you’re reacting by trying provide mental-health resources or support or time off. And, think — and empathy, just empathy. I think that’s really important. And always say, to so many of our managers … just care. If just care, a lot of things get easier. You don’t have design a hundred mechanisms if you just have the right people place who care. At the same time, I will what we’re realizing now, in sort of this next phase, is that that’s a reactive approach actually the root cause — that we can control at — the root cause of a lot of stress and burnout is sometimes people either don’t have … focus, we’re asking people to do too many things or they don’t like they’re supported in doing those things. And that, think, is actually where we should be spending more — is how do we actually set the right prioritization focus. There’s some issue there, right? There’s a root cause there that’s a “Oh, I like I’m stressed because there’s too much going on. don’t feel equipped to solve it.” Then, we should into the “What is the detail there, and do we need to do things differently?” And, you know, of our themes at Vimeo this year was “Do less, better.”
SM: the economy starts to, maybe, move sideways, do you that there are going to be stakeholders who say, you know, “Out with all of this touchy-feely, workplace-as-a-family stuff. Where are my results?”
AS: Absolutely. I the pendulum has already swung pretty clearly. I mean, I work in SAS, as a service, so we already went from “growth at cost” to “profitability,” you know, pendulum swing. My perspective on this — and hasn’t changed — I think the best leaders and cultures results and treat people well. And I actually think, if you treat people well, with and empathy, you will get better results. And so, you know, for me, I think what I observed the last few years is — that part, I think, hasn’t and shouldn’t change. There were, I think, a lot times when companies, we did things because maybe it lip service or we felt pressured. And that’s not going to be sustainable. that’s not what — ultimately, that’s not what people need, in any case. So, know, I sort of see it as — the you channel how you are caring towards your employees how you are empathetic, always should be in service of helping people do their best work, will deliver results, which will be good for the bottom line. And you have to believe that. have to be committed to that and if you use that consistently in decision-making, it should not be a trade-off. These are mutually exclusive things.
SM: Anjali, how have you been taking care yourself during this period of tremendous turmoil and change, also growth? You mentioned you just had a baby. There’s a on your shoulders. How, as a leader, do you some self-care or how do you make sure that you’re the balance you need to be the most effective leader can be?
AS: I think — recently, the phrase I use lot to myself is “two things can be true, both can be true.” I say this lot. And for me, I think of it as, like, “This is hard, and it’s gotten harder.” We went public the height of the pandemic and last year, market has been tremendous. You know, we’re obviously going through ton with post-pandemic, we have a team in Ukraine going through a — all these things that have happened. And so, it’s a hard job, it’s an incredibly privileged job. It’s a gift, right? so, I think for me, it’s sort of acknowledging both of things has helped me a lot. The way I’ve tried to kind of lead, has — it’s always been this way, which is, for me, it’s have to have passion. I have to have passion. have to believe so deeply that what Vimeo is doing is important matters for the world. And if I have passion, I have energy and then I will — can kind of move through anything. I have to find joy my team. I feel like, especially in hard times, I look back at my career and actually, of my most fulfilling times in work were when — the hardest business situations. But it’s because it brought group of people together all on one team, and so I think that’s been, you know, a really part of it. And then, yeah, like, you have to be a little selfish sometimes, and take of yourself. And I am really fortunate. I think I have a great support network me and I do … My husband and I a deal, where on Sundays, I disappear for a of hours. I just disappear and I walk around the city and I listen to my and do whatever I need to do, and that’s really important.
SM: you talked about how hybrid work is going to look very different in the future than we describe it today. It’s basically in office a couple days, work from home a couple of other days. Tell a little bit more about what you could potentially see evolving into.
AS: I think the idea of an office as a time and place goes away. And I think it’s really going to people are going to want to work from anywhere, in the world. Even the concept of where you’re located is going to change. then the idea of like “I’m going to work on this time zone” or “I’m to attend this meeting that’s scheduled on this date” — I think that’s going to go away. And think what you’re going to find is more and more work, from knowledge workers, is going to be done anywhere, anytime. Communication and collaboration will happen and we will be using tools and technology — whether it’s video, whether it’s AI — to enable that at scale among many people, anywhere in the world. And I think leadership, leaders are going to look different. I think it’s going to require — if you think about skill set to be a global CEO 30 years ago versus what that will require now — I in the future … the skill set is going be like, “How do you communicate with diverse, global audiences and across time zones in a way that is effective, provides context and alignment at scale? How do you programs, whether it’s compensation, whether it’s, you know, training?” All of that is going to very different. But I think the ultimate thing you’ll see is just … there were these that we’ve lived with, whether it was time or place or budget, some cases. And I think those constraints are going go away. And the promise is that if we flexible and smart and we use technology in the way, that we’ll actually come away a much more and efficient workforce.
SM: Well, I think you just showed us some the passion that you’ve talked about as being the thing that gives you energy to lead that organization 1,300 people worldwide. Anjali, thank you so much for being here today.
AS: you. This was great.