Stephanie Mehta: Welcome, Anjali. I’m glad you’re here with us today.
Anjali Sud: Thank you, it is great to here.
SM: At Vimeo, you lead a workforce of 1,300 people worldwide — you creatives, you have finance people, you have technologists. So I’m going start with a really easy question: what was it like to manage diverse workforce through a global pandemic, a racial reckoning a very fraught return to office?
AS: Oh, it was breeze, Stephanie. No, it was really challenging. You know, I the only constant has been change. And as a leader, obviously — you have a workforce that’s looking for certainty, and they’re to control what’s happening around them. And I think what we all found, leaders, no matter what company you were … responsible for, was that you couldn’t offer certainty, and couldn’t always control the environment and the things around you. And so, know, for me, it was really about agility. How do stay flexible as a team? How do we communicate in real time and keep people informed as we and move through things? And then, also just how we lead with more humanity? You know, for Vimeo, of the things I’ve really learned over the last years is we each experience the world so differently. have employees who are remote. We have an incredible team in Ukraine … employees are on the front lines, who are literally at war. On the other hand, you have people in different of the world who are experiencing mental-health challenges or burnout, and so think it was really just — the hardest part was not being able to give certainty, not being able to just apply a one-size-fits-all rule for everyone. But I ultimately think it us, as a company, to build more trust, because be agile and flexible, and to lead with humanity, have to trust each other. And so, I’m sort of optimistic that actually we’re from this time with a culture that is more flexible and nimble, and also, hopefully, has trust.
SM: Can you give an example of something that put into place, perhaps during the pandemic, to enhance or build trust or create a greater sense of or even to communicate that there is no certainty, is a muscle that you think you’ll continue to use in the far into the future?
AS: There’s a couple of things that did. One — and we are a video platform, I obviously have to talk about video, but I mean sincerely — one of the hardest parts, when you’re all sort of disparate, is you lose context you lose nuance when you communicate. And we did make concerted effort to move away from email and chat, text-based communication, as much possible, and actually try, particularly for our leadership team, when were communicating, to do it with your face, and your hands and your body and your emotions. we did that through live streaming a lot of communications, recording a lot videos. We sent asynchronous video messages. So I send … I record my and just send a note out to people. Every new hire does a video welcome and introduce themselves. A lot of our meetings we’ve replaced with just quick video presentations. And actually, what that really did was allow the humanity and context to come through and I think that helped us a lot to, of, stay close. So that was one, I think, important thing.
Another important thing is, I think, just creating mechanisms to make it to talk about when things aren’t working, because a part of being agile is recognizing we have an that isn’t working. And so one of the things we do at Vimeo is we try — I do this in all my town halls, we do it in a lot of meetings — is always about what’s working, what are our top three things, and what isn’t working — yet. we’ve kind of created, I think, a framework that sort of takes the stigma from talking about what’s not working. And when you make that normalized comfortable for people, I feel like it’s allowed us to be more open, as organization, about what do we need to change, what do we to pivot. And both of those, being more video-first our communication and being more transparent and normalizing what’s not working, I has been really helpful, and certainly something we’re carrying forward.
SM: I love advice about being video-first. So many of our members of our live in a video world. They’re used to video as means of communication. Which brings me to my next question. You’ve talked how the organization has changed. How do you see workforce changing? What is different with the young millennials, and even, now, the first wave of Gen Z into the workplace?
AS: I think it’s incredibly different. And, know, one of the things that we think about at Vimeo a lot is a lot of the and communication modes that we still use today, they’re antiquated. They were designed for a totally different environment and totally different generation. But I see a lot of differences. One them, I think, is the line between your personal and work life is definitely blending. … If you about your personal life — look at TikTok. This generation is used to consuming content, learning, engaging, in very specific way. And if they then have to come to work to be trained on a job, read a 300-page manual? Like, it’s not going to happen, right? Or if you the meeting, and you have to watch the Zoom recording of three-hour meeting — that’s just not going to happen. And I think that there is definitely sort of this — know, we talk about the “consumerization of enterprise.” Those just fancy words for saying the way … we communicate and interact in our personal is going to translate to work. And so I definitely that’s an area of opportunity.
The other thing I see sort of the generation, the newest generation coming into workforce, is sort of, of course mission-driven, but I think there’s desire to really understand the “why” behind things. And one of communication mantras is we never talk about the “what” without the “why.” I think there’s a desire to — the idea that, well, there’s a hierarchy, “My boss told me that this is what we’re going to do” or — that, think, is increasingly moving away, and people, they don’t just want to do something because someone with formal told them to do it. They want to do it because they understand why it matters, why it to the mission. And I think that that forces leaders really bring more of the “why” into how we communicate and people.
So those are two of the things I see, and then, know, the third I think is just flexibility. I think — this is true of all of us, but particularly the younger — I think they’re looking for flexibility and they want options and choices. And it’s not easy and feasible to provide ultimate flexibility, but this is where I try and orient more to agility. How can we have approaches and and be committed to things, but also know when question, and when to actually pivot?
SM: Yeah. Anjali, you share a few examples of ways that you at have tried to really be proactive when it comes to or understanding what your next generation of employees are to want, either in terms of purpose or in terms benefits or in terms of flexibility? Are there programs or processes you’ve in place that really speak to this big sea change we’re seeing in terms of from the workforce?
AS: Firstly, of course, it’s all about listening, right? And I think, like many organizations, way we’ve tried to listen and understand our workforce is very similar: it’s Q and and engagement surveys, and things like that. And some the things that we’ve done, we have a people culture NPS, net promoter score, the same way we have for our users, for internal teams. But I would say one of the things we’ve really tried to do is appreciate that when we get inputs from our employees, 1,300 employees … can’t look at the averages. You can’t look at it all totality and try and pull out an obvious “Oh, this how everybody’s feeling.” Because what you actually — when you really into it and truly listen and do focus groups and to people — what you’ll find is actually there’s very experiences and desires among your employees. And so, I think for us, what we’ve just tried to do is have a bunch of different listening and then resist the urge to conveniently pull, like, “Oh, is what everyone’s feeling, let’s just do this thing the action.” And it’s hard, and we’re still kind of figuring it out, I will tell you, some of the things that we’ve heard from employees have our approach to hybrid work or travel or even things like our approach to compensation our approach to DE and I. So I think it’s just like I said, that agile listening, constantly really understanding what’s happening, not treating everything as, like, an average or the same. And us, it’s been particularly stark because we have offices and teams so many different countries and the differences, they’re substantial. They’re really substantial, about the way we different things. And we used to have a very, of, “One Vimeo” global approach in the name of consistency fairness, and what we found is we have to be more localized. really do. We have to design mechanisms to support our teams a very different way, because their experiences and the around them is quite different.
So I think that’s been one, and I will tell you, it has involved a lot of — as executive team and leadership team — it’s involved a of trying things, it not working, and changing them. And great example is our Q and A. I feel every leader I know has a perspective on whether do open Q and A or anonymous Q and A, real-time Q and A. We’ve changed our approach there multiple times, and I know we again, because we’re still figuring out the right way to listen and have a with a very diverse workforce.
SM: I want to stay on newcomers to the for just another moment, because another thing I hear from CEOs of my generation and older is concern about making sure that we are not just providing our youngest employees the flexibility and the purpose that they need, but also training and the wisdom that comes, oftentimes, from being in close proximity to a mentor to somebody who’s done the job for many more years. What is your philosophy and take making sure that knowledge transfer is happening?
AS: I think it’s a major challenge that I don’t that everyone will sort of have a solution for. think about that all the time. We have a very distributed workforce at Vimeo. have people in over eight countries. My executive team is entirely distributed. So I’ve really realized benefits of being able to have a distributed workforce and being able to attract talent just be more inclusive. On the flip side, there’s definitely, I think, a lack of the same kinds learning opportunities and mentorship, particularly for the youngest folks are entering the workforce. So I think it’s a challenge. of the approaches that we’ve been taking, and what’s sort of nice, is we’re modeling at the top. So if my entire executive team distributed, that means I have to learn how to provide real-time feedback, mentorship and development for whole set of new executives who have just joined. We have sort of changed up the executive almost entirely in the last twelve months. So I’ve had to deal with the same challenges. And we’ve to literally — we call it our operating system — we’ve had design an operating system, as an executive team, for how we’re to work together in that environment. How do we share real-time feedback? do we create the right communication loops? And so I think, from my perspective, it’s more have to be able to do it ourselves and model it and then, think it’s a more proven mechanism for young people. I will say, like many companies … I do that in-person collaboration is really important for learning. We do — we bring people into an office. If you’re remote, we ask folks to come and spend time in a room with their team, do activities, all of those things. I don’t think they go away, nor do I think they should. But, you know, candidly, it’s area that I don’t think we’ve really figured out perfectly I think it’s really critical that as leaders, we do that, that this next generation is able to get the same growth that we all had.
SM: Well, and it’s interesting — the tools that you mentioned at the beginning of our conversation, around video, can be really helpful there. I’ve heard of a of organizations that have really encouraged their young people present, as a way of having to go out find the information they need. And then, because we have tools available to us now, you know, they have an opportunity to share their ideas with a group of people, but first, kind of going through the fact-finding and the research, and then sharing ideas. In an earlier comment, you talked a little bit mental illness and the different things that people are bringing to work, it is, you know, exhaustion, burnout. During the Black Lives Matter protests, we had lot of people coming to the office feeling trauma, and feeling personal issues bubble to the surface. I’m wondering if can share a little bit about how you deal with increasing personal — you know, when people bring their selves to the office, which we encourage, sometimes, they bring things, parts themselves that are challenging.
AS: Yeah … I’ve always thought the of a leader is to empower people to do their work and the responsibility of a company is to empower our to do their best work. And so, of course, we a real role to play in supporting things like mental-health issues or burnout. And, know, the way I think, like many companies, the we initially probably sought to do that was more, know, you’re seeing a problem and you’re reacting by trying to provide mental-health resources or support time off. And, I think — and empathy, just empathy. I think that’s really important. I always say, to so many of our managers … just care. If just care, a lot of things get easier. You don’t have to design a hundred mechanisms you just have the right people in place who care. At the same time, I will say what we’re now, in sort of this next phase, is that that’s a reactive approach and actually the root — that we can control at Vimeo — the root cause a lot of stress and burnout is sometimes people don’t have enough … focus, we’re asking people to do too many things or they don’t feel they’re supported in doing those things. And that, I think, actually where we should be spending more time — is how do we actually set the prioritization and focus. There’s some issue there, right? There’s a root there that’s a “Oh, I feel like I’m stressed there’s too much going on. I don’t feel equipped solve it.” Then, we should get into the “What is detail there, and do we need to do things differently?” And, you know, one of our themes Vimeo this year was “Do less, better.”
SM: As the economy starts to, maybe, move sideways, do think that there are going to be stakeholders who say, know, “Out with all of this touchy-feely, the workplace-as-a-family stuff. are my results?”
AS: Absolutely. I think the pendulum has already swung pretty clearly. I mean, I work SAS, software as a service, so we already went from “growth at cost” to “profitability,” you know, pendulum swing. My perspective on this — and hasn’t changed — I think the best leaders and cultures results and treat people well. And I actually think, if you people well, with kindness and empathy, you will get results. And so, you know, for me, I think what I observed the last few years is — that part, I think, hasn’t and shouldn’t change. There were, I think, a lot of times when companies, did things because maybe it was lip service or we pressured. And that’s not going to be sustainable. But that’s what — ultimately, that’s not what people need, in any case. So, you know, I sort of it as — the way you channel how you are caring towards your employees and you are empathetic, always should be in service of helping do their best work, which will deliver results, which will be for the bottom line. And you have to believe that. You have to be to that and if you use that consistently in decision-making, it should not be a trade-off. These are not exclusive things.
SM: Anjali, how have you been taking care of yourself this period of tremendous turmoil and change, but also growth? You you just had a baby. There’s a lot on your shoulders. How, as a leader, do practice some self-care or how do you make sure that you’re getting the balance you need to be most effective leader you can be?
AS: I think — recently, the phrase I a lot to myself is “two things can be true, both can true.” I say this a lot. And for me, I think of it as, like, “This job hard, and it’s gotten harder.” We went public at the of the pandemic and last year, market volatility has been tremendous. know, we’re obviously going through a ton with post-pandemic, we have a team in going through a war — all these things that have happened. And so, it’s hard job, and it’s an incredibly privileged job. It’s a gift, right? And so, I for me, it’s sort of acknowledging both of those things has helped me lot. The way I’ve tried to kind of lead, has been — it’s been this way, which is, for me, it’s I have to have passion. I have to have passion. have to believe so deeply that what Vimeo is is important and matters for the world. And if have passion, I have energy and then I will — I kind of move through anything. I have to find joy in team. I feel like, especially in hard times, I look back my career and actually, some of my most fulfilling in work were when — in the hardest business situations. But it’s it brought a group of people together all on team, and so I think that’s been, you know, a big part of it. And then, yeah, like, you to be a little selfish sometimes, and take care yourself. And I am really fortunate. I think I a great support network around me and I do … My husband and have a deal, where on Sundays, I disappear for couple of hours. I just disappear and I walk the city and I listen to my music and do whatever need to do, and that’s really important.
SM: So talked about how hybrid work is going to look different in the future than how we describe it today. It’s basically in office a couple of days, work from a couple of other days. Tell us a little bit about what you could potentially see that evolving into.
AS: I think the idea of office as a time and place completely goes away. And I think it’s really going to people are going to want to work from anywhere, anywhere the world. Even the concept of where you’re located is going to change. then the idea of like “I’m going to work on this time zone” or “I’m going to this meeting that’s scheduled on this date” — I think that’s going go away. And I think what you’re going to find more and more work, particularly from knowledge workers, is to be done anywhere, anytime. Communication and collaboration will asynchronously and we will be using tools and technology — whether it’s video, whether it’s AI — to enable that at scale among many people, anywhere in the world. And I think leadership, leaders are going to look different. Because I think it’s going to — if you think about the skill set to be a global CEO 30 years versus what that will require now — I think in the future … the skill set is to be like, “How do you communicate with diverse, audiences and employees across time zones in a way is effective, that provides context and alignment at scale? How do you programs, whether it’s compensation, whether it’s, you know, training?” All of is going to look very different. But I think the ultimate thing you’ll is just … there were these constraints that we’ve lived with, whether it was time or or budget, in some cases. And I think those constraints are going to go away. And the is that if we are flexible and smart and we use technology the right way, that we’ll actually come away a more evolved and efficient workforce.
SM: Well, I think just showed us some of the passion that you’ve talked about as being the thing that gives energy to lead that organization of 1,300 people worldwide. Anjali, thank you so much for being today.
AS: Thank you. This was great.