Stephanie Mehta: Welcome, Anjali. I’m so glad you’re here with us today.
Anjali Sud: you, it is great to be here.
SM: At Vimeo, lead a workforce of 1,300 people worldwide — you have creatives, you have finance people, have technologists. So I’m going to start with a really question: what was it like to manage this diverse workforce through a pandemic, a racial reckoning and a very fraught return to office?
AS: Oh, it was breeze, Stephanie. No, it was really challenging. You know, I think the constant has been change. And as a leader, you — you have a workforce that’s looking for certainty, they’re looking to control what’s happening around them. And I what we all found, as leaders, no matter what company you were … responsible for, that you couldn’t offer certainty, and you couldn’t always control the environment and the things you. And so, you know, for me, it was about agility. How do we stay flexible as a team? How do communicate in real time and keep people informed as try and move through things? And then, also just how we lead with more humanity? You know, for Vimeo, one of the I’ve really learned over the last few years is we each experience the so differently. We have employees who are remote. We have incredible team in Ukraine … employees who are on the front lines, are literally at war. On the other hand, you have people different parts of the world who are experiencing mental-health challenges or burnout, and so I think it was just — the hardest part was not being able to give everyone certainty, not being able to apply a one-size-fits-all rule for everyone. But I ultimately it forced us, as a company, to build more trust, because to be and flexible, and to lead with humanity, you have to each other. And so, I’m sort of optimistic that we’re emerging from this time with a culture that is flexible and nimble, and also, hopefully, has more trust.
SM: Can you an example of something that you put into place, perhaps during the pandemic, to communications or build trust or create a greater sense of or even to communicate that there is no certainty, is a muscle that you think you’ll continue to in the organization far into the future?
AS: There’s a couple of that we did. One — and we are a platform, so I obviously have to talk about video, I mean this sincerely — one of the hardest parts, when you’re all sort of disparate, is you context and you lose nuance when you communicate. And we did make a concerted effort move away from email and chat, text-based communication, as much possible, and actually try, particularly for our leadership team, we were communicating, to do it with your face, and your hands and your body your emotions. And we did that through live streaming lot of communications, recording a lot of videos. We sent asynchronous video messages. I send … I record my screen and just send a note to people. Every new hire does a video to welcome and introduce themselves. A lot of our we’ve actually replaced with just quick video presentations. And actually, what that did was allow the humanity and the context to come through and think that helped us a lot to, kind of, stay close. So that was one, think, really important thing.
Another important thing is, I think, just creating to make it easier to talk about when things aren’t working, because a critical of being agile is recognizing we have an area isn’t working. And so one of the things that we do Vimeo is we try — I do this in all my town halls, we do it in a lot of meetings — always talk about what’s working, what are our top things, and what isn’t working — yet. And we’ve kind of created, I think, a framework that sort takes the stigma away from talking about what’s not working. And you make that normalized and comfortable for people, I feel it’s allowed us to be more open, as an organization, about what do we to change, what do we need to pivot. And both of those, being more video-first our communication and being more transparent and normalizing what’s not working, think has been really helpful, and certainly something we’re forward.
SM: I love that advice about being video-first. So many of our members our workforce live in a video world. They’re used to video as means of communication. Which brings me to my next question. You’ve talked about how the organization has changed. How you see the workforce changing? What is different with young millennials, and even, now, the first wave of Z coming into the workplace?
AS: I think it’s incredibly different. And, you know, one the things that we think about at Vimeo a lot is a lot of the and communication modes that we still use today, they’re really antiquated. They were for a totally different environment and a totally different generation. But I a lot of differences. One of them, I think, is the between your personal life and work life is definitely blending. … If you think about your personal — look at TikTok. This generation is used to consuming content, learning, engaging, in a specific way. And if they then have to come to work and to trained on a job, read a 300-page manual? Like, it’s not going to happen, right? Or you miss the meeting, and you have to watch Zoom recording of a three-hour meeting — that’s just not going to happen. And so I think that is definitely sort of this — you know, we talk about the “consumerization of enterprise.” are just fancy words for saying the way … we communicate interact in our personal lives is going to translate to work. And so I think that’s an area of opportunity.
The other thing see from sort of the generation, the newest generation coming into the workforce, sort of, of course mission-driven, but I think there’s desire to really understand the “why” behind things. And one our communication mantras is we never talk about the “what” without the “why.” And think there’s a desire to — the idea that, well, there’s a hierarchy, “My boss told me that this is what we’re going to do” or — that, I think, increasingly moving away, and people, they don’t just want do something because someone with formal authority told them to do it. They to do it because they understand why it matters, why it ties to the mission. I think that that forces leaders to really bring of the “why” into how we communicate and motivate people.
So those are two of the things see, and then, you know, the third I think is just flexibility. think — and this is true of all of us, but particularly younger generation — I think they’re looking for flexibility and want options and choices. And it’s not always easy and feasible to provide ultimate flexibility, this is where I try and orient it more to agility. How we have approaches and principles and be committed to things, but also know when question, and when to actually pivot?
SM: Yeah. Anjali, can you share a examples of ways that you at Vimeo have tried really be proactive when it comes to addressing or understanding what your next of employees are going to want, either in terms of purpose in terms of benefits or in terms of flexibility? Are there programs or processes you’ve put in that really speak to this big sea change we’re seeing in terms of values from workforce?
AS: Firstly, of course, it’s all about listening, right? And I think, like many organizations, the we’ve tried to listen and understand our workforce is very similar: it’s Q and As and surveys, and things like that. And some of the things that we’ve done, we have a people culture NPS, net promoter score, the same way we have our users, for our internal teams. But I would say one the things that we’ve really tried to do is appreciate that when we get from our employees, 1,300 employees … you can’t look at the averages. You can’t at it all in totality and try and pull out an obvious “Oh, is how everybody’s feeling.” Because what you actually — when you dig into it and truly listen and do focus and talk to people — what you’ll find is actually there’s very different experiences and desires among employees. And so, I think for us, what we’ve really just to do is have a bunch of different listening mechanisms and then resist the urge conveniently pull, like, “Oh, this is what everyone’s feeling, let’s just do this thing the action.” And it’s hard, and we’re still kind figuring it out, but I will tell you, some of the things that we’ve heard from employees have our approach to hybrid work or travel or even things like approach to compensation or our approach to DE and I. So I it’s more just like I said, that agile listening, really understanding what’s happening, but not treating everything as, like, an average or the same. And for us, it’s particularly stark because we have offices and teams in so many countries and the differences, they’re substantial. They’re really substantial, about way we solve different things. And we used to have a very, sort of, “One Vimeo” approach in the name of consistency and fairness, and what found is we have to be more localized. We do. We have to design mechanisms to support our teams a very different way, because their experiences and the world them is quite different.
So I think that’s definitely been one, and will tell you, it has involved a lot of — as an team and leadership team — it’s involved a lot trying things, it not working, and changing them. And a great example is Q and A. I feel like every leader I know has a perspective whether they do open Q and A or anonymous Q and A, or real-time and A. We’ve changed our approach there multiple times, I know we will again, because we’re still figuring out right way to listen and have a dialogue with a very diverse workforce.
SM: I want stay on newcomers to the workplace for just another moment, because another thing I from CEOs of my generation and older is a concern making sure that we are not just providing our youngest with the flexibility and the purpose that they need, also the training and the wisdom that comes, oftentimes, being in close proximity to a mentor or to who’s done the job for many more years. What is your philosophy take on making sure that knowledge transfer is happening?
AS: I think it’s a major challenge that I don’t that everyone will sort of have a solution for. I think about that all the time. have a very distributed workforce at Vimeo. We have in over eight countries. My executive team is entirely distributed. So I’ve really realized benefits of being able to have a distributed workforce and being able to talent and just be more inclusive. On the flip side, there’s definitely, I think, lack of the same kinds of learning opportunities and mentorship, for the youngest folks that are entering the workforce. So I think it’s a challenge. One the approaches that we’ve been taking, and what’s sort nice, is we’re modeling it at the top. So if my entire executive team is distributed, that means have to learn how to provide real-time feedback, mentorship development for a whole set of new executives who have just joined. We sort of changed up the executive team almost entirely in last twelve months. So I’ve had to deal with same challenges. And we’ve had to literally — we call it our system — we’ve had to design an operating system, an executive team, for how we’re going to work together in that environment. do we share real-time feedback? How do we create the right communication loops? so I think, from my perspective, it’s more we have to be to do it ourselves and model it and then, I think it’s a more proven for young people. I will say, like many companies … do believe that in-person collaboration is really important for learning. We do — we bring people into an office. If you’re remote, ask folks to come in and spend time in a with their team, do social activities, all of those things. I don’t they will go away, nor do I think they should. But, know, candidly, it’s an area that I don’t think we’ve figured out perfectly and I think it’s really critical that as leaders, we that, so that this next generation is able to the same growth opportunities that we all had.
SM: Well, it’s interesting — the tools that you mentioned at the very beginning our conversation, around video, can be really helpful there. I’ve heard of a of organizations that have really encouraged their young people to present, as a way having to go out and find the information they need. And then, because have video tools available to us now, you know, they have an to share their ideas with a large group of people, first, kind of going through the fact-finding and the research, and sharing their ideas. In an earlier comment, you talked a little bit about mental illness the different things that people are bringing to work, whether it is, know, exhaustion, burnout. During the Black Lives Matter protests, we had lot of people coming to the office feeling trauma, and feeling really personal issues bubble the surface. I’m wondering if you can share a bit about how you deal with this increasing personal — you know, when people their whole selves to the office, which we encourage, sometimes, bring things, parts of themselves that are challenging.
AS: Yeah … I’ve thought the responsibility of a leader is to empower people do their best work and the responsibility of a company to empower our people to do their best work. And so, course, we have a real role to play in things like mental-health issues or burnout. And, you know, the way I think, like companies, the way we initially probably sought to do was more, you know, you’re seeing a problem and you’re reacting by trying provide mental-health resources or support or time off. And, I — and empathy, just empathy. I think that’s really important. And I always say, so many of our managers … just care. If we just care, a lot of get easier. You don’t have to design a hundred mechanisms if you just the right people in place who care. At the same time, I will say we’re realizing now, in sort of this next phase, is that’s a reactive approach and actually the root cause — that we can control at Vimeo — the root of a lot of stress and burnout is sometimes either don’t have enough … focus, we’re asking people to do many things or they don’t feel like they’re supported in those things. And that, I think, is actually where we should be spending more time — is do we actually set the right prioritization and focus. There’s issue there, right? There’s a root cause there that’s a “Oh, feel like I’m stressed because there’s too much going on. don’t feel equipped to solve it.” Then, we should get into the “What is the detail there, and we need to do things differently?” And, you know, one of themes at Vimeo this year was “Do less, better.”
SM: the economy starts to, maybe, move sideways, do you that there are going to be stakeholders who say, you know, “Out with all this touchy-feely, the workplace-as-a-family stuff. Where are my results?”
AS: Absolutely. think the pendulum has already swung pretty clearly. I mean, work in SAS, software as a service, so we went from “growth at all cost” to “profitability,” you know, pendulum swing. My perspective on this — it hasn’t changed — I think the best leaders and cultures deliver and treat people well. And I actually think, if you people well, with kindness and empathy, you will get better results. And so, you know, for me, I what I observed over the last few years is — part, I think, hasn’t changed and shouldn’t change. There were, think, a lot of times when companies, we did things because maybe it lip service or we felt pressured. And that’s not to be sustainable. But that’s not what — ultimately, that’s not what need, in any case. So, you know, I sort of see it as — the way you how you are caring towards your employees and how you are empathetic, should be in service of helping people do their best work, which will deliver results, will be good for the bottom line. And you to believe that. You have to be committed to and if you use that consistently in your decision-making, it should not be a trade-off. These are not exclusive things.
SM: Anjali, how have you been taking care yourself during this period of tremendous turmoil and change, but also growth? You mentioned you just a baby. There’s a lot on your shoulders. How, as leader, do you practice some self-care or how do you make sure that you’re getting the balance need to be the most effective leader you can be?
AS: I — recently, the phrase I use a lot to myself is “two can be true, both can be true.” I say this a lot. for me, I think of it as, like, “This job is hard, and it’s gotten harder.” We went at the height of the pandemic and last year, market volatility been tremendous. You know, we’re obviously going through a ton with post-pandemic, have a team in Ukraine going through a war — all these things that have happened. so, it’s a hard job, and it’s an incredibly privileged job. It’s gift, right? And so, I think for me, it’s sort of both of those things has helped me a lot. way I’ve tried to kind of lead, has been — it’s been this way, which is, for me, it’s I to have passion. I have to have passion. I have to believe so deeply that Vimeo is doing is important and matters for the world. And I have passion, I have energy and then I — I can kind of move through anything. I to find joy in my team. I feel like, especially hard times, I look back at my career and actually, some of most fulfilling times in work were when — in the hardest business situations. But it’s because it brought group of people together all on one team, and so think that’s been, you know, a really big part it. And then, yeah, like, you have to be a little selfish sometimes, and take care yourself. And I am really fortunate. I think I have a great support network around me and I … My husband and I have a deal, where on Sundays, I disappear for couple of hours. I just disappear and I walk around the city and I listen to my music do whatever I need to do, and that’s really important.
SM: you talked about how hybrid work is going to look very different in the future than how describe it today. It’s basically in office a couple of days, work from home a of other days. Tell us a little bit more about what you could see that evolving into.
AS: I think the idea of an as a time and place completely goes away. And I it’s really going to be people are going to want to from anywhere, anywhere in the world. Even the concept where you’re located is going to change. And then idea of like “I’m going to work on this time zone” or “I’m going to attend this that’s scheduled on this date” — I think that’s going to away. And I think what you’re going to find is more and more work, particularly from workers, is going to be done anywhere, anytime. Communication and collaboration will happen asynchronously and we will using tools and technology — whether it’s video, whether it’s AI — basically enable that at scale among many people, anywhere in the world. And then think leadership, leaders are going to look different. Because I think it’s going to require — if think about the skill set to be a global CEO 30 years ago versus what that will now — I think in the future … the skill set is to be like, “How do you communicate with diverse, global audiences and employees across time zones in a that is effective, that provides context and alignment at scale? How do organize programs, whether it’s compensation, whether it’s, you know, training?” All of that is going look very different. But I think the ultimate thing you’ll is just … there were these constraints that we’ve with, whether it was time or place or budget, in some cases. And I those constraints are going to go away. And the promise is if we are flexible and smart and we use technology in right way, that we’ll actually come away a much more and efficient workforce.
SM: Well, I think you just us some of the passion that you’ve talked about as being the thing that you energy to lead that organization of 1,300 people worldwide. Anjali, thank so much for being here today.
AS: Thank you. This great.