Stephanie Mehta: Welcome, Anjali. I’m so glad you’re with us today.
Anjali Sud: Thank you, it is to be here.
SM: At Vimeo, you lead a workforce of 1,300 people — you have creatives, you have finance people, you have technologists. So I’m going to start with really easy question: what was it like to manage this diverse workforce through a pandemic, a racial reckoning and a very fraught return office?
AS: Oh, it was a breeze, Stephanie. No, was really challenging. You know, I think the only constant has been change. as a leader, you obviously — you have a that’s looking for certainty, and they’re looking to control what’s around them. And I think what we all found, leaders, no matter what company you were … responsible for, was that couldn’t offer certainty, and you couldn’t always control the and the things around you. And so, you know, for me, was really about agility. How do we stay flexible as a team? How do we communicate in time and keep people informed as we try and move things? And then, also just how do we lead with more humanity? You know, for Vimeo, of the things I’ve really learned over the last few is we each experience the world so differently. We have employees who are remote. We have an incredible in Ukraine … employees who are on the front lines, are literally at war. On the other hand, you people in different parts of the world who are mental-health challenges or burnout, and so I think it really just — the hardest part was not being able to give certainty, not being able to just apply a one-size-fits-all rule for everyone. But ultimately think it forced us, as a company, to more trust, because to be agile and flexible, and lead with humanity, you have to trust each other. And so, I’m sort of optimistic that we’re emerging from this time with a culture that is flexible and nimble, and also, hopefully, has more trust.
SM: Can you give an example of something that put into place, perhaps during the pandemic, to enhance communications or build trust create a greater sense of community or even to communicate that is no certainty, that is a muscle that you you’ll continue to use in the organization far into the future?
AS: There’s couple of things that we did. One — and we are a platform, so I obviously have to talk about video, but mean this sincerely — one of the hardest parts, you’re all sort of disparate, is you lose context and you lose nuance when you communicate. And we make a concerted effort to move away from email chat, text-based communication, as much as possible, and actually try, particularly for our leadership team, when we communicating, to do it with your face, and your hands your body and your emotions. And we did that through live streaming lot of communications, recording a lot of videos. We sent asynchronous video messages. So I send … I my screen and just send a note out to people. Every new hire does a video welcome and introduce themselves. A lot of our meetings we’ve actually replaced with just quick presentations. And actually, what that really did was allow the humanity and context to come through and I think that helped us a lot to, kind of, stay close. So was one, I think, really important thing.
Another important thing is, I think, just creating mechanisms to make easier to talk about when things aren’t working, because critical part of being agile is recognizing we have an area that isn’t working. And so of the things that we do at Vimeo is try — I do this in all of my halls, we do it in a lot of meetings — is talk about what’s working, what are our top three things, and isn’t working — yet. And we’ve kind of created, I think, a framework that sort of takes the away from talking about what’s not working. And when make that normalized and comfortable for people, I feel like it’s us to be more open, as an organization, about what do need to change, what do we need to pivot. both of those, being more video-first in our communication and being more transparent and what’s not working, I think has been really helpful, and certainly we’re carrying forward.
SM: I love that advice about being video-first. So of our members of our workforce live in a video world. They’re used to as a means of communication. Which brings me to my next question. You’ve talked about how organization has changed. How do you see the workforce changing? What is with the young millennials, and even, now, the first of Gen Z coming into the workplace?
AS: I think it’s incredibly different. And, you know, of the things that we think about at Vimeo a lot a lot of the mechanisms and communication modes that we use today, they’re really antiquated. They were designed for a different environment and a totally different generation. But I see a of differences. One of them, I think, is the between your personal life and work life is definitely blending. … you think about your personal life — look at TikTok. generation is used to consuming content, learning, engaging, in a very specific way. And if then have to come to work and to be on a job, read a 300-page manual? Like, it’s not going to happen, right? Or you miss the meeting, and you have to watch the Zoom recording a three-hour meeting — that’s just not going to happen. And so I think that there is definitely sort this — you know, we talk about the “consumerization of enterprise.” Those just fancy words for saying the way … we communicate interact in our personal lives is going to translate to work. And so I think that’s an area of opportunity.
The other thing I see from sort of generation, the newest generation coming into the workforce, is sort of, of course mission-driven, but think there’s a desire to really understand the “why” behind things. And one of our communication mantras is never talk about the “what” without the “why.” And I think there’s a desire to — the that, well, there’s a hierarchy, or “My boss told me this is what we’re going to do” or — that, I think, is increasingly away, and people, they don’t just want to do something someone with formal authority told them to do it. They want to it because they understand why it matters, why it to the mission. And I think that that forces leaders to really bring of the “why” into how we communicate and motivate people.
So those are two the things I see, and then, you know, the third think is just flexibility. I think — and this true of all of us, but particularly the younger generation — I think they’re looking flexibility and they want options and choices. And it’s not always easy feasible to provide ultimate flexibility, but this is where I try and it more to agility. How can we have approaches and and be committed to things, but also know when question, and when to actually pivot?
SM: Yeah. Anjali, can you share a few of ways that you at Vimeo have tried to be proactive when it comes to addressing or understanding what your next generation of employees are going want, either in terms of purpose or in terms of benefits or in terms of flexibility? Are programs or processes you’ve put in place that really speak to this sea change we’re seeing in terms of values from workforce?
AS: Firstly, of course, it’s all about listening, right? And think, like many organizations, the way we’ve tried to listen and our workforce is very similar: it’s Q and As engagement surveys, and things like that. And some of things that we’ve done, we have a people and culture NPS, net score, the same way we have for our users, for our internal teams. But I say one of the things that we’ve really tried to do is appreciate when we get inputs from our employees, 1,300 employees … you can’t look at the averages. You can’t at it all in totality and try and pull an obvious “Oh, this is how everybody’s feeling.” Because you actually — when you really dig into it and listen and do focus groups and talk to people — what you’ll is actually there’s very different experiences and desires among your employees. so, I think for us, what we’ve really just tried do is have a bunch of different listening mechanisms and then the urge to conveniently pull, like, “Oh, this is everyone’s feeling, let’s just do this thing as the action.” it’s hard, and we’re still kind of figuring it out, but will tell you, some of the things that we’ve heard from employees have changed approach to hybrid work or travel or even things like our approach to compensation or approach to DE and I. So I think it’s more just I said, that agile listening, constantly really understanding what’s happening, not treating everything as, like, an average or the same. for us, it’s been particularly stark because we have offices and in so many different countries and the differences, they’re substantial. They’re really substantial, the way we solve different things. And we used have a very, sort of, “One Vimeo” global approach the name of consistency and fairness, and what we found is we to be more localized. We really do. We have to design mechanisms to support teams in a very different way, because their experiences the world around them is quite different.
So I think that’s definitely one, and I will tell you, it has involved lot of — as an executive team and leadership team — it’s involved lot of trying things, it not working, and changing them. And a example is our Q and A. I feel like every I know has a perspective on whether they do open Q and or anonymous Q and A, or real-time Q and A. We’ve our approach there multiple times, and I know we will again, we’re still figuring out the right way to listen have a dialogue with a very diverse workforce.
SM: I want stay on newcomers to the workplace for just another moment, because another thing I hear from CEOs of my and older is a concern about making sure that we are not providing our youngest employees with the flexibility and the purpose that they need, but also the and the wisdom that comes, oftentimes, from being in close proximity to a mentor to somebody who’s done the job for many more years. What your philosophy and take on making sure that knowledge is happening?
AS: I think it’s a major challenge that I don’t know that everyone sort of have a solution for. I think about all the time. We have a very distributed workforce at Vimeo. We people in over eight countries. My executive team is entirely distributed. So I’ve really the benefits of being able to have a distributed workforce and able to attract talent and just be more inclusive. On the side, there’s definitely, I think, a lack of the kinds of learning opportunities and mentorship, particularly for the youngest folks that are entering the workforce. I think it’s a challenge. One of the approaches that we’ve been taking, and what’s sort of nice, we’re modeling it at the top. So if my entire executive team is distributed, that I have to learn how to provide real-time feedback, mentorship and development for a whole of new executives who have just joined. We have sort of changed up the executive team almost entirely the last twelve months. So I’ve had to deal with same challenges. And we’ve had to literally — we it our operating system — we’ve had to design an operating system, an executive team, for how we’re going to work in that environment. How do we share real-time feedback? How do create the right communication loops? And so I think, my perspective, it’s more we have to be able do it ourselves and model it and then, I it’s a more proven mechanism for young people. I will say, many companies … I do believe that in-person collaboration really important for learning. We do have — we bring people an office. If you’re remote, we ask folks to come and spend time in a room with their team, do activities, all of those things. I don’t think they will go away, nor do I think should. But, you know, candidly, it’s an area that I don’t think we’ve really figured out perfectly and think it’s really critical that as leaders, we do that, so that this next generation is able to get the growth opportunities that we all had.
SM: Well, and it’s — the tools that you mentioned at the very beginning of conversation, around video, can be really helpful there. I’ve of a number of organizations that have really encouraged young people to present, as a way of having to go out and find the they need. And then, because we have video tools available us now, you know, they have an opportunity to share their ideas with a large of people, but first, kind of going through the fact-finding and the research, then sharing their ideas. In an earlier comment, you a little bit about mental illness and the different things that are bringing to work, whether it is, you know, exhaustion, burnout. the Black Lives Matter protests, we had a lot of people to the office feeling trauma, and feeling really personal issues to the surface. I’m wondering if you can share a little about how you deal with this increasing personal — you know, when people bring their whole to the office, which we encourage, sometimes, they bring things, parts of themselves that challenging.
AS: Yeah … I’ve always thought the responsibility of leader is to empower people to do their best work and the responsibility of a is to empower our people to do their best work. And so, course, we have a real role to play in supporting things like mental-health issues burnout. And, you know, the way I think, like companies, the way we initially probably sought to do that was more, know, you’re seeing a problem and you’re reacting by trying provide mental-health resources or support or time off. And, think — and empathy, just empathy. I think that’s important. And I always say, to so many of our … just care. If we just care, a lot of things get easier. You don’t have to design hundred mechanisms if you just have the right people in who care. At the same time, I will say we’re realizing now, in sort of this next phase, that that’s a reactive approach and actually the root cause — that we can at Vimeo — the root cause of a lot of stress and burnout is sometimes people either don’t enough … focus, we’re asking people to do too many things or they don’t feel like they’re supported doing those things. And that, I think, is actually where should be spending more time — is how do we actually set the right prioritization and focus. There’s issue there, right? There’s a root cause there that’s a “Oh, I like I’m stressed because there’s too much going on. I don’t feel to solve it.” Then, we should get into the “What is the detail there, and do we need to things differently?” And, you know, one of our themes at Vimeo this was “Do less, better.”
SM: As the economy starts to, maybe, move sideways, you think that there are going to be stakeholders say, you know, “Out with all of this touchy-feely, workplace-as-a-family stuff. Where are my results?”
AS: Absolutely. I think the pendulum has already pretty clearly. I mean, I work in SAS, software a service, so we already went from “growth at all cost” to “profitability,” you know, pendulum swing. My on this — and it hasn’t changed — I the best leaders and cultures deliver results and treat people well. I actually think, if you treat people well, with kindness empathy, you will get better results. And so, you know, for me, I think what I observed the last few years is — that part, I think, hasn’t and shouldn’t change. There were, I think, a lot times when companies, we did things because maybe it lip service or we felt pressured. And that’s not to be sustainable. But that’s not what — ultimately, that’s not people need, in any case. So, you know, I sort of it as — the way you channel how you are caring towards your and how you are empathetic, always should be in service of helping people do their best work, will deliver results, which will be good for the line. And you have to believe that. You have to be committed to that and if you use consistently in your decision-making, it should not be a trade-off. are not mutually exclusive things.
SM: Anjali, how have been taking care of yourself during this period of tremendous turmoil and change, also growth? You mentioned you just had a baby. There’s a lot on shoulders. How, as a leader, do you practice some self-care or how you make sure that you’re getting the balance you need to be the most effective you can be?
AS: I think — recently, the I use a lot to myself is “two things can be true, both be true.” I say this a lot. And for me, I think it as, like, “This job is hard, and it’s gotten harder.” We went public at the of the pandemic and last year, market volatility has been tremendous. You know, we’re obviously going through a with post-pandemic, we have a team in Ukraine going through a war — all these things that happened. And so, it’s a hard job, and it’s an incredibly job. It’s a gift, right? And so, I think me, it’s sort of acknowledging both of those things has helped a lot. The way I’ve tried to kind of lead, has — it’s always been this way, which is, for me, it’s I to have passion. I have to have passion. I have to believe so deeply that what Vimeo doing is important and matters for the world. And if I passion, I have energy and then I will — I can kind of move through anything. I to find joy in my team. I feel like, especially in hard times, I look back at career and actually, some of my most fulfilling times in work when — in the hardest business situations. But it’s because it brought a group of together all on one team, and so I think that’s been, you know, a really part of it. And then, yeah, like, you have to be a little selfish sometimes, and care of yourself. And I am really fortunate. I think I a great support network around me and I do … My and I have a deal, where on Sundays, I disappear for couple of hours. I just disappear and I walk around the city I listen to my music and do whatever I to do, and that’s really important.
SM: So you talked about how hybrid is going to look very different in the future how we describe it today. It’s basically in office a couple days, work from home a couple of other days. Tell a little bit more about what you could potentially see that evolving into.
AS: think the idea of an office as a time and place goes away. And I think it’s really going to be people are going to to work from anywhere, anywhere in the world. Even the concept of you’re located is going to change. And then the idea of like “I’m going to work on this zone” or “I’m going to attend this meeting that’s scheduled this date” — I think that’s going to go away. And I think you’re going to find is more and more work, particularly from knowledge workers, is to be done anywhere, anytime. Communication and collaboration will happen asynchronously and we will be using and technology — whether it’s video, whether it’s AI — to basically enable that at scale among many people, in the world. And then I think leadership, leaders are going to different. Because I think it’s going to require — if you about the skill set to be a global CEO 30 years ago what that will require now — I think in the future … the skill set is to be like, “How do you communicate with diverse, global and employees across time zones in a way that effective, that provides context and alignment at scale? How do you programs, whether it’s compensation, whether it’s, you know, training?” All that is going to look very different. But I think the ultimate thing you’ll see just … there were these constraints that we’ve lived with, whether was time or place or budget, in some cases. And I think those constraints going to go away. And the promise is that we are flexible and smart and we use technology in the right way, that we’ll actually come a much more evolved and efficient workforce.
SM: Well, I you just showed us some of the passion that you’ve talked about as being the thing gives you energy to lead that organization of 1,300 people worldwide. Anjali, thank so much for being here today.
AS: Thank you. This great.