Stephanie Mehta: Welcome, Anjali. I’m glad you’re here with us today.
Anjali Sud: Thank you, it great to be here.
SM: At Vimeo, you lead workforce of 1,300 people worldwide — you have creatives, have finance people, you have technologists. So I’m going start with a really easy question: what was it like to manage this workforce through a global pandemic, a racial reckoning and a very fraught return to office?
AS: Oh, was a breeze, Stephanie. No, it was really challenging. You know, I think the only constant been change. And as a leader, you obviously — have a workforce that’s looking for certainty, and they’re to control what’s happening around them. And I think what we found, as leaders, no matter what company you were … responsible for, was you couldn’t offer certainty, and you couldn’t always control the environment the things around you. And so, you know, for me, was really about agility. How do we stay flexible as a team? How do we communicate in time and keep people informed as we try and move through things? then, also just how do we lead with more humanity? You know, for Vimeo, one the things I’ve really learned over the last few is we each experience the world so differently. We have employees who remote. We have an incredible team in Ukraine … employees who are on front lines, who are literally at war. On the hand, you have people in different parts of the world who are experiencing mental-health challenges burnout, and so I think it was really just — hardest part was not being able to give everyone certainty, not being able to just apply a one-size-fits-all for everyone. But I ultimately think it forced us, as a company, to more trust, because to be agile and flexible, and to with humanity, you have to trust each other. And so, I’m sort of optimistic actually we’re emerging from this time with a culture that is flexible and nimble, and also, hopefully, has more trust.
SM: Can you give an example of something that put into place, perhaps during the pandemic, to enhance or build trust or create a greater sense of community even to communicate that there is no certainty, that is a muscle you think you’ll continue to use in the organization far the future?
AS: There’s a couple of things that did. One — and we are a video platform, so I have to talk about video, but I mean this sincerely — one the hardest parts, when you’re all sort of disparate, is you lose context and you nuance when you communicate. And we did make a concerted effort to move from email and chat, text-based communication, as much as possible, and actually try, particularly for leadership team, when we were communicating, to do it with your face, and your and your body and your emotions. And we did that through live streaming a lot of communications, recording lot of videos. We sent asynchronous video messages. So I send … I record my and just send a note out to people. Every new hire does a to welcome and introduce themselves. A lot of our meetings we’ve actually with just quick video presentations. And actually, what that really did was allow the humanity and the to come through and I think that helped us a to, kind of, stay close. So that was one, I think, really important thing.
Another important thing is, think, just creating mechanisms to make it easier to talk when things aren’t working, because a critical part of being agile recognizing we have an area that isn’t working. And so one of the things that we at Vimeo is we try — I do this in all my town halls, we do it in a lot of — is always talk about what’s working, what are our top three things, and isn’t working — yet. And we’ve kind of created, I think, a framework that sort of takes the away from talking about what’s not working. And when you make that normalized and for people, I feel like it’s allowed us to be more open, an organization, about what do we need to change, what do we need to pivot. And of those, being more video-first in our communication and more transparent and normalizing what’s not working, I think has been really helpful, certainly something we’re carrying forward.
SM: I love that advice about being video-first. So many of members of our workforce live in a video world. They’re to video as a means of communication. Which brings me to my next question. You’ve talked how the organization has changed. How do you see workforce changing? What is different with the young millennials, and even, now, the wave of Gen Z coming into the workplace?
AS: think it’s incredibly different. And, you know, one of things that we think about at Vimeo a lot a lot of the mechanisms and communication modes that we still use today, they’re really antiquated. They designed for a totally different environment and a totally generation. But I see a lot of differences. One of them, I think, the line between your personal life and work life definitely blending. … If you think about your personal life — at TikTok. This generation is used to consuming content, learning, engaging, a very specific way. And if they then have to come to and to be trained on a job, read a 300-page manual? Like, it’s not to happen, right? Or if you miss the meeting, and you have to the Zoom recording of a three-hour meeting — that’s just going to happen. And so I think that there is sort of this — you know, we talk about the “consumerization of enterprise.” Those are just words for saying the way … we communicate and interact in our lives is going to translate to work. And so I definitely think that’s an of opportunity.
The other thing I see from sort of the generation, newest generation coming into the workforce, is sort of, course mission-driven, but I think there’s a desire to really understand the “why” behind things. And of our communication mantras is we never talk about “what” without the “why.” And I think there’s a desire to — the that, well, there’s a hierarchy, or “My boss told me that this is we’re going to do” or — that, I think, is increasingly moving away, and people, they don’t just to do something because someone with formal authority told them to do it. want to do it because they understand why it matters, it ties to the mission. And I think that that forces leaders to really bring of the “why” into how we communicate and motivate people.
So those are two of things I see, and then, you know, the third I think is flexibility. I think — and this is true of all of us, but particularly the generation — I think they’re looking for flexibility and they want and choices. And it’s not always easy and feasible to provide flexibility, but this is where I try and orient it to agility. How can we have approaches and principles and be committed to things, but also when to question, and when to actually pivot?
SM: Yeah. Anjali, can you share a few examples of ways you at Vimeo have tried to really be proactive it comes to addressing or understanding what your next generation employees are going to want, either in terms of or in terms of benefits or in terms of flexibility? Are programs or processes you’ve put in place that really speak to this big sea we’re seeing in terms of values from the workforce?
AS: Firstly, of course, it’s all about listening, right? I think, like many organizations, the way we’ve tried listen and understand our workforce is very similar: it’s and As and engagement surveys, and things like that. some of the things that we’ve done, we have a people and culture NPS, net score, the same way we have for our users, for our internal teams. But I would one of the things that we’ve really tried to do is appreciate when we get inputs from our employees, 1,300 employees … you can’t look at averages. You can’t look at it all in totality try and pull out an obvious “Oh, this is how everybody’s feeling.” Because what actually — when you really dig into it and truly listen and do focus groups and talk people — what you’ll find is actually there’s very different and desires among your employees. And so, I think for us, we’ve really just tried to do is have a bunch of different listening mechanisms then resist the urge to conveniently pull, like, “Oh, is what everyone’s feeling, let’s just do this thing the action.” And it’s hard, and we’re still kind of it out, but I will tell you, some of the that we’ve heard from employees have changed our approach to hybrid or travel or even things like our approach to compensation or our approach DE and I. So I think it’s more just like said, that agile listening, constantly really understanding what’s happening, but treating everything as, like, an average or the same. And for us, it’s been particularly because we have offices and teams in so many different countries and differences, they’re substantial. They’re really substantial, about the way we solve different things. And we used to have very, sort of, “One Vimeo” global approach in the of consistency and fairness, and what we found is have to be more localized. We really do. We to design mechanisms to support our teams in a very different way, because experiences and the world around them is quite different.
So think that’s definitely been one, and I will tell you, it has involved a lot of — as an team and leadership team — it’s involved a lot of things, it not working, and changing them. And a great example is our Q and A. I like every leader I know has a perspective on whether they do Q and A or anonymous Q and A, or real-time and A. We’ve changed our approach there multiple times, and I know we again, because we’re still figuring out the right way to listen and have a dialogue with a diverse workforce.
SM: I want to stay on newcomers the workplace for just another moment, because another thing I hear from of my generation and older is a concern about making sure that we not just providing our youngest employees with the flexibility and the purpose that they need, but also the and the wisdom that comes, oftentimes, from being in close proximity to a mentor or to somebody who’s the job for many more years. What is your and take on making sure that knowledge transfer is happening?
AS: I think it’s a major challenge that I don’t know everyone will sort of have a solution for. I think that all the time. We have a very distributed workforce at Vimeo. have people in over eight countries. My executive team is entirely distributed. I’ve really realized the benefits of being able to have a workforce and being able to attract talent and just more inclusive. On the flip side, there’s definitely, I think, a lack of the same kinds learning opportunities and mentorship, particularly for the youngest folks that are entering the workforce. I think it’s a challenge. One of the approaches that we’ve been taking, what’s sort of nice, is we’re modeling it at the top. So if entire executive team is distributed, that means I have to learn how provide real-time feedback, mentorship and development for a whole set of new executives have just joined. We have sort of changed up the executive team entirely in the last twelve months. So I’ve had to deal with the challenges. And we’ve had to literally — we call it our operating system — we’ve to design an operating system, as an executive team, for how we’re going to work in that environment. How do we share real-time feedback? do we create the right communication loops? And so think, from my perspective, it’s more we have to be able do it ourselves and model it and then, I it’s a more proven mechanism for young people. I say, like many companies … I do believe that in-person collaboration is really important for learning. do have — we bring people into an office. you’re remote, we ask folks to come in and spend in a room with their team, do social activities, of those things. I don’t think they will go away, do I think they should. But, you know, candidly, it’s area that I don’t think we’ve really figured out perfectly and think it’s really critical that as leaders, we do that, so that this next generation is able get the same growth opportunities that we all had.
SM: Well, and it’s interesting — the tools that you mentioned at the beginning of our conversation, around video, can be really helpful there. I’ve of a number of organizations that have really encouraged their young people present, as a way of having to go out and the information they need. And then, because we have video tools to us now, you know, they have an opportunity to share ideas with a large group of people, but first, kind of going through the fact-finding the research, and then sharing their ideas. In an earlier comment, you talked a little bit mental illness and the different things that people are bringing to work, whether it is, know, exhaustion, burnout. During the Black Lives Matter protests, we had lot of people coming to the office feeling trauma, feeling really personal issues bubble to the surface. I’m if you can share a little bit about how deal with this increasing personal — you know, when people their whole selves to the office, which we encourage, sometimes, bring things, parts of themselves that are challenging.
AS: … I’ve always thought the responsibility of a leader to empower people to do their best work and the responsibility of a company to empower our people to do their best work. And so, course, we have a real role to play in supporting things like mental-health issues burnout. And, you know, the way I think, like many companies, the we initially probably sought to do that was more, you know, you’re seeing a and you’re reacting by trying to provide mental-health resources or support or off. And, I think — and empathy, just empathy. I that’s really important. And I always say, to so many our managers … just care. If we just care, lot of things get easier. You don’t have to design a mechanisms if you just have the right people in place who care. At the same time, I will what we’re realizing now, in sort of this next phase, is that’s a reactive approach and actually the root cause — we can control at Vimeo — the root cause of a lot of stress and burnout is sometimes either don’t have enough … focus, we’re asking people do too many things or they don’t feel like they’re supported doing those things. And that, I think, is actually where we should be spending more — is how do we actually set the right prioritization and focus. There’s some issue there, right? There’s a cause there that’s a “Oh, I feel like I’m because there’s too much going on. I don’t feel to solve it.” Then, we should get into the “What is the detail there, and do we to do things differently?” And, you know, one of our themes at Vimeo year was “Do less, better.”
SM: As the economy to, maybe, move sideways, do you think that there are to be stakeholders who say, you know, “Out with all of this touchy-feely, the workplace-as-a-family stuff. are my results?”
AS: Absolutely. I think the pendulum has already swung pretty clearly. mean, I work in SAS, software as a service, we already went from “growth at all cost” to “profitability,” you know, swing. My perspective on this — and it hasn’t changed — think the best leaders and cultures deliver results and people well. And I actually think, if you treat people well, with and empathy, you will get better results. And so, you know, for me, I think I observed over the last few years is — part, I think, hasn’t changed and shouldn’t change. There were, think, a lot of times when companies, we did things because it was lip service or we felt pressured. And that’s going to be sustainable. But that’s not what — ultimately, that’s not people need, in any case. So, you know, I sort of see it — the way you channel how you are caring your employees and how you are empathetic, always should be in of helping people do their best work, which will deliver results, which be good for the bottom line. And you have to believe that. You have to committed to that and if you use that consistently your decision-making, it should not be a trade-off. These are mutually exclusive things.
SM: Anjali, how have you been taking care of yourself during period of tremendous turmoil and change, but also growth? You mentioned you just had baby. There’s a lot on your shoulders. How, as a leader, do you some self-care or how do you make sure that you’re getting the balance you to be the most effective leader you can be?
AS: think — recently, the phrase I use a lot to myself is “two can be true, both can be true.” I say this a lot. And for me, I think it as, like, “This job is hard, and it’s gotten harder.” We went public at the height the pandemic and last year, market volatility has been tremendous. You know, we’re obviously going through a ton with post-pandemic, we have team in Ukraine going through a war — all these things that have happened. And so, it’s a job, and it’s an incredibly privileged job. It’s a gift, right? so, I think for me, it’s sort of acknowledging both those things has helped me a lot. The way I’ve to kind of lead, has been — it’s always this way, which is, for me, it’s I have to passion. I have to have passion. I have to believe so that what Vimeo is doing is important and matters the world. And if I have passion, I have and then I will — I can kind of through anything. I have to find joy in my team. I feel like, in hard times, I look back at my career actually, some of my most fulfilling times in work were when — the hardest business situations. But it’s because it brought a group of people together on one team, and so I think that’s been, you know, a big part of it. And then, yeah, like, you have to be a selfish sometimes, and take care of yourself. And I am really fortunate. think I have a great support network around me and I do … My husband I have a deal, where on Sundays, I disappear for a of hours. I just disappear and I walk around the city and listen to my music and do whatever I need do, and that’s really important.
SM: So you talked about how hybrid is going to look very different in the future than how we it today. It’s basically in office a couple of days, from home a couple of other days. Tell us a bit more about what you could potentially see that evolving into.
AS: think the idea of an office as a time and place completely goes away. And I it’s really going to be people are going to want to work from anywhere, anywhere in world. Even the concept of where you’re located is going to change. And then the idea of like “I’m to work on this time zone” or “I’m going to attend this meeting that’s on this date” — I think that’s going to away. And I think what you’re going to find is more more work, particularly from knowledge workers, is going to done anywhere, anytime. Communication and collaboration will happen asynchronously and we be using tools and technology — whether it’s video, whether it’s — to basically enable that at scale among many people, anywhere in world. And then I think leadership, leaders are going to look different. I think it’s going to require — if you think about the set to be a global CEO 30 years ago versus what that require now — I think in the future … the skill set is to be like, “How do you communicate with diverse, global and employees across time zones in a way that is effective, provides context and alignment at scale? How do you organize programs, it’s compensation, whether it’s, you know, training?” All of is going to look very different. But I think the ultimate you’ll see is just … there were these constraints we’ve lived with, whether it was time or place or budget, some cases. And I think those constraints are going to go away. And the is that if we are flexible and smart and we use technology in the right way, we’ll actually come away a much more evolved and workforce.
SM: Well, I think you just showed us some of the that you’ve talked about as being the thing that you energy to lead that organization of 1,300 people worldwide. Anjali, thank you much for being here today.
AS: Thank you. This great.