Stephanie Mehta: Welcome, Anjali. I’m so glad you’re here with today.
Anjali Sud: Thank you, it is great to be here.
SM: At Vimeo, you a workforce of 1,300 people worldwide — you have creatives, you finance people, you have technologists. So I’m going to start with really easy question: what was it like to manage this workforce through a global pandemic, a racial reckoning and a very fraught return to office?
AS: Oh, was a breeze, Stephanie. No, it was really challenging. You know, I think only constant has been change. And as a leader, you obviously — have a workforce that’s looking for certainty, and they’re looking to control what’s happening around them. And think what we all found, as leaders, no matter what company you were … responsible for, was that couldn’t offer certainty, and you couldn’t always control the and the things around you. And so, you know, for me, was really about agility. How do we stay flexible as a team? do we communicate in real time and keep people informed as try and move through things? And then, also just how we lead with more humanity? You know, for Vimeo, one the things I’ve really learned over the last few is we each experience the world so differently. We have employees are remote. We have an incredible team in Ukraine … employees who are the front lines, who are literally at war. On the other hand, you have people in different parts the world who are experiencing mental-health challenges or burnout, and so think it was really just — the hardest part was not being able give everyone certainty, not being able to just apply a one-size-fits-all rule for everyone. But ultimately think it forced us, as a company, to build trust, because to be agile and flexible, and to lead humanity, you have to trust each other. And so, I’m sort of optimistic that actually we’re emerging from time with a culture that is more flexible and nimble, and also, hopefully, has more trust.
SM: you give an example of something that you put place, perhaps during the pandemic, to enhance communications or build trust create a greater sense of community or even to communicate that there is certainty, that is a muscle that you think you’ll to use in the organization far into the future?
AS: There’s a couple of things that we did. — and we are a video platform, so I have to talk about video, but I mean this sincerely — of the hardest parts, when you’re all sort of disparate, is you context and you lose nuance when you communicate. And we did make a concerted effort to move away email and chat, text-based communication, as much as possible, actually try, particularly for our leadership team, when we were communicating, to do it your face, and your hands and your body and your emotions. And we did that through live streaming lot of communications, recording a lot of videos. We sent asynchronous messages. So I send … I record my screen just send a note out to people. Every new hire does a video to and introduce themselves. A lot of our meetings we’ve actually replaced just quick video presentations. And actually, what that really was allow the humanity and the context to come through I think that helped us a lot to, kind of, stay close. So that was one, I think, really thing.
Another important thing is, I think, just creating mechanisms to it easier to talk about when things aren’t working, because a critical part of agile is recognizing we have an area that isn’t working. And so one of the things that we at Vimeo is we try — I do this in all of town halls, we do it in a lot of meetings — is always talk about what’s working, what are top three things, and what isn’t working — yet. we’ve kind of created, I think, a framework that of takes the stigma away from talking about what’s not working. And you make that normalized and comfortable for people, I like it’s allowed us to be more open, as an organization, about what do need to change, what do we need to pivot. And of those, being more video-first in our communication and more transparent and normalizing what’s not working, I think has been really helpful, certainly something we’re carrying forward.
SM: I love that advice about video-first. So many of our members of our workforce live in a video world. They’re used to video as means of communication. Which brings me to my next question. You’ve talked about how organization has changed. How do you see the workforce changing? is different with the young millennials, and even, now, the first wave Gen Z coming into the workplace?
AS: I think it’s incredibly different. And, you know, one the things that we think about at Vimeo a is a lot of the mechanisms and communication modes that we still today, they’re really antiquated. They were designed for a totally different environment and a totally generation. But I see a lot of differences. One them, I think, is the line between your personal life work life is definitely blending. … If you think about your life — look at TikTok. This generation is used to consuming content, learning, engaging, in a specific way. And if they then have to come to work to be trained on a job, read a 300-page manual? Like, it’s going to happen, right? Or if you miss the meeting, you have to watch the Zoom recording of a three-hour meeting — that’s just not to happen. And so I think that there is definitely sort this — you know, we talk about the “consumerization of enterprise.” Those are just fancy words for the way … we communicate and interact in our personal lives is to translate to work. And so I definitely think that’s area of opportunity.
The other thing I see from of the generation, the newest generation coming into the workforce, is of, of course mission-driven, but I think there’s a desire to really the “why” behind things. And one of our communication is we never talk about the “what” without the “why.” I think there’s a desire to — the idea that, well, there’s hierarchy, or “My boss told me that this is we’re going to do” or — that, I think, is increasingly away, and people, they don’t just want to do something because someone formal authority told them to do it. They want do it because they understand why it matters, why it to the mission. And I think that that forces leaders to bring more of the “why” into how we communicate and people.
So those are two of the things I see, then, you know, the third I think is just flexibility. think — and this is true of all of us, particularly the younger generation — I think they’re looking for flexibility and they options and choices. And it’s not always easy and to provide ultimate flexibility, but this is where I try and it more to agility. How can we have approaches and principles and be committed things, but also know when to question, and when to pivot?
SM: Yeah. Anjali, can you share a few examples ways that you at Vimeo have tried to really be proactive when it to addressing or understanding what your next generation of employees are going want, either in terms of purpose or in terms of or in terms of flexibility? Are there programs or you’ve put in place that really speak to this sea change we’re seeing in terms of values from workforce?
AS: Firstly, of course, it’s all about listening, right? And I think, like many organizations, way we’ve tried to listen and understand our workforce is very similar: it’s and As and engagement surveys, and things like that. And some of the things we’ve done, we have a people and culture NPS, net score, the same way we have for our users, for our internal teams. I would say one of the things that we’ve really tried to do appreciate that when we get inputs from our employees, 1,300 employees … you can’t look at the averages. can’t look at it all in totality and try and out an obvious “Oh, this is how everybody’s feeling.” Because what you actually — when you dig into it and truly listen and do focus groups and talk to — what you’ll find is actually there’s very different experiences and among your employees. And so, I think for us, we’ve really just tried to do is have a bunch of listening mechanisms and then resist the urge to conveniently pull, like, “Oh, is what everyone’s feeling, let’s just do this thing the action.” And it’s hard, and we’re still kind figuring it out, but I will tell you, some of the things that we’ve from employees have changed our approach to hybrid work or travel or even things like our approach to or our approach to DE and I. So I think it’s more just like I said, agile listening, constantly really understanding what’s happening, but not everything as, like, an average or the same. And for us, it’s particularly stark because we have offices and teams in so many different and the differences, they’re substantial. They’re really substantial, about the way we solve different things. And we to have a very, sort of, “One Vimeo” global approach in the name of consistency fairness, and what we found is we have to more localized. We really do. We have to design mechanisms support our teams in a very different way, because their experiences and the world around is quite different.
So I think that’s definitely been one, I will tell you, it has involved a lot — as an executive team and leadership team — it’s a lot of trying things, it not working, and changing them. a great example is our Q and A. I like every leader I know has a perspective on whether they do Q and A or anonymous Q and A, or real-time Q and A. We’ve changed our there multiple times, and I know we will again, we’re still figuring out the right way to listen have a dialogue with a very diverse workforce.
SM: I want to stay on newcomers to workplace for just another moment, because another thing I hear from of my generation and older is a concern about making sure that are not just providing our youngest employees with the and the purpose that they need, but also the and the wisdom that comes, oftentimes, from being in close to a mentor or to somebody who’s done the for many more years. What is your philosophy and take on making sure that transfer is happening?
AS: I think it’s a major challenge that I don’t know that everyone sort of have a solution for. I think about that the time. We have a very distributed workforce at Vimeo. We people in over eight countries. My executive team is entirely distributed. So I’ve really realized benefits of being able to have a distributed workforce being able to attract talent and just be more inclusive. the flip side, there’s definitely, I think, a lack of the same kinds learning opportunities and mentorship, particularly for the youngest folks that are the workforce. So I think it’s a challenge. One of the that we’ve been taking, and what’s sort of nice, is we’re modeling it at the top. So if my executive team is distributed, that means I have to learn how to provide real-time feedback, mentorship and development a whole set of new executives who have just joined. We have sort of changed the executive team almost entirely in the last twelve months. So I’ve to deal with the same challenges. And we’ve had to — we call it our operating system — we’ve had to design operating system, as an executive team, for how we’re to work together in that environment. How do we share real-time feedback? do we create the right communication loops? And so think, from my perspective, it’s more we have to be able to it ourselves and model it and then, I think it’s a more mechanism for young people. I will say, like many companies … do believe that in-person collaboration is really important for learning. do have — we bring people into an office. you’re remote, we ask folks to come in and spend time in a with their team, do social activities, all of those things. I don’t think they will go away, do I think they should. But, you know, candidly, it’s area that I don’t think we’ve really figured out perfectly and think it’s really critical that as leaders, we do that, so this next generation is able to get the same growth opportunities that all had.
SM: Well, and it’s interesting — the tools that you mentioned at very beginning of our conversation, around video, can be really helpful there. I’ve heard of a number of that have really encouraged their young people to present, as a way having to go out and find the information they need. And then, because have video tools available to us now, you know, they an opportunity to share their ideas with a large group of people, first, kind of going through the fact-finding and the research, and sharing their ideas. In an earlier comment, you talked little bit about mental illness and the different things that people are bringing to work, whether it is, know, exhaustion, burnout. During the Black Lives Matter protests, we had a lot people coming to the office feeling trauma, and feeling really personal bubble to the surface. I’m wondering if you can a little bit about how you deal with this increasing personal — you know, when people bring their selves to the office, which we encourage, sometimes, they bring things, parts themselves that are challenging.
AS: Yeah … I’ve always the responsibility of a leader is to empower people to their best work and the responsibility of a company is to empower our to do their best work. And so, of course, we have real role to play in supporting things like mental-health issues or burnout. And, you know, way I think, like many companies, the way we probably sought to do that was more, you know, you’re seeing problem and you’re reacting by trying to provide mental-health resources or support or time off. And, think — and empathy, just empathy. I think that’s really important. I always say, to so many of our managers … care. If we just care, a lot of things get easier. You don’t have design a hundred mechanisms if you just have the right in place who care. At the same time, I will say we’re realizing now, in sort of this next phase, is that that’s a reactive approach and actually root cause — that we can control at Vimeo — root cause of a lot of stress and burnout is sometimes people either don’t enough … focus, we’re asking people to do too many things they don’t feel like they’re supported in doing those things. that, I think, is actually where we should be spending more — is how do we actually set the right prioritization and focus. There’s some issue there, right? There’s root cause there that’s a “Oh, I feel like I’m stressed there’s too much going on. I don’t feel equipped to it.” Then, we should get into the “What is the detail there, do we need to do things differently?” And, you know, one our themes at Vimeo this year was “Do less, better.”
SM: As the economy starts to, maybe, move sideways, you think that there are going to be stakeholders who say, you know, “Out all of this touchy-feely, the workplace-as-a-family stuff. Where are my results?”
AS: Absolutely. I think the pendulum already swung pretty clearly. I mean, I work in SAS, software a service, so we already went from “growth at all cost” to “profitability,” you know, pendulum swing. My on this — and it hasn’t changed — I think the best leaders and cultures results and treat people well. And I actually think, if you treat people well, with and empathy, you will get better results. And so, you know, for me, I think what observed over the last few years is — that part, I think, hasn’t and shouldn’t change. There were, I think, a lot times when companies, we did things because maybe it lip service or we felt pressured. And that’s not to be sustainable. But that’s not what — ultimately, that’s not what people need, any case. So, you know, I sort of see it as — the you channel how you are caring towards your employees and how are empathetic, always should be in service of helping people their best work, which will deliver results, which will good for the bottom line. And you have to believe that. You have to be committed to that and you use that consistently in your decision-making, it should not be a trade-off. These are not exclusive things.
SM: Anjali, how have you been taking care of yourself during this period of turmoil and change, but also growth? You mentioned you had a baby. There’s a lot on your shoulders. How, as a leader, you practice some self-care or how do you make sure you’re getting the balance you need to be the most leader you can be?
AS: I think — recently, the I use a lot to myself is “two things can true, both can be true.” I say this a lot. And for me, I think it as, like, “This job is hard, and it’s gotten harder.” We went at the height of the pandemic and last year, market has been tremendous. You know, we’re obviously going through a ton post-pandemic, we have a team in Ukraine going through a war — all these things that have happened. so, it’s a hard job, and it’s an incredibly job. It’s a gift, right? And so, I think for me, it’s sort of acknowledging both of those has helped me a lot. The way I’ve tried to kind of lead, has been — it’s always this way, which is, for me, it’s I have to have passion. I have to passion. I have to believe so deeply that what Vimeo is doing is important matters for the world. And if I have passion, have energy and then I will — I can kind move through anything. I have to find joy in my team. I feel like, in hard times, I look back at my career actually, some of my most fulfilling times in work when — in the hardest business situations. But it’s because it a group of people together all on one team, so I think that’s been, you know, a really part of it. And then, yeah, like, you have to be a little selfish sometimes, and take of yourself. And I am really fortunate. I think I have a support network around me and I do … My and I have a deal, where on Sundays, I for a couple of hours. I just disappear and I around the city and I listen to my music do whatever I need to do, and that’s really important.
SM: you talked about how hybrid work is going to very different in the future than how we describe it today. It’s basically office a couple of days, work from home a couple of other days. Tell us a little bit about what you could potentially see that evolving into.
AS: think the idea of an office as a time and place completely goes away. And I think it’s going to be people are going to want to work from anywhere, anywhere in world. Even the concept of where you’re located is going change. And then the idea of like “I’m going to work on time zone” or “I’m going to attend this meeting that’s scheduled on this date” — think that’s going to go away. And I think what you’re going to find is and more work, particularly from knowledge workers, is going to done anywhere, anytime. Communication and collaboration will happen asynchronously and we will be using tools and technology — it’s video, whether it’s AI — to basically enable at scale among many people, anywhere in the world. And then I think leadership, leaders are to look different. Because I think it’s going to require — if think about the skill set to be a global CEO 30 years ago what that will require now — I think in the future … the set is going to be like, “How do you with diverse, global audiences and employees across time zones in a way that is effective, that provides context and at scale? How do you organize programs, whether it’s compensation, whether it’s, you know, training?” of that is going to look very different. But think the ultimate thing you’ll see is just … there were constraints that we’ve lived with, whether it was time or or budget, in some cases. And I think those constraints are going to away. And the promise is that if we are flexible smart and we use technology in the right way, that we’ll actually come away a more evolved and efficient workforce.
SM: Well, I think you just showed some of the passion that you’ve talked about as the thing that gives you energy to lead that of 1,300 people worldwide. Anjali, thank you so much for being here today.
AS: Thank you. was great.