Stephanie Mehta: Welcome, Anjali. I’m glad you’re here with us today.
Anjali Sud: Thank you, is great to be here.
SM: At Vimeo, you lead a workforce of 1,300 people — you have creatives, you have finance people, you have technologists. So I’m going to start a really easy question: what was it like to this diverse workforce through a global pandemic, a racial and a very fraught return to office?
AS: Oh, it was breeze, Stephanie. No, it was really challenging. You know, I think the constant has been change. And as a leader, you obviously — have a workforce that’s looking for certainty, and they’re looking to control what’s around them. And I think what we all found, as leaders, no matter company you were … responsible for, was that you couldn’t offer certainty, and you couldn’t always control the and the things around you. And so, you know, for me, was really about agility. How do we stay flexible as a team? do we communicate in real time and keep people informed as we try move through things? And then, also just how do we with more humanity? You know, for Vimeo, one of things I’ve really learned over the last few years is each experience the world so differently. We have employees who remote. We have an incredible team in Ukraine … employees who are on the front lines, who are at war. On the other hand, you have people in different parts of the who are experiencing mental-health challenges or burnout, and so I think it was really — the hardest part was not being able to give everyone certainty, not being able to apply a one-size-fits-all rule for everyone. But I ultimately it forced us, as a company, to build more trust, to be agile and flexible, and to lead with humanity, have to trust each other. And so, I’m sort optimistic that actually we’re emerging from this time with a culture that is flexible and nimble, and also, hopefully, has more trust.
SM: you give an example of something that you put into place, perhaps during the pandemic, to enhance communications build trust or create a greater sense of community or even to communicate that there is no certainty, is a muscle that you think you’ll continue to in the organization far into the future?
AS: There’s couple of things that we did. One — and are a video platform, so I obviously have to talk about video, I mean this sincerely — one of the hardest parts, when you’re all of disparate, is you lose context and you lose nuance when you communicate. And we did a concerted effort to move away from email and chat, text-based communication, as much as possible, and actually try, for our leadership team, when we were communicating, to do it with your face, and hands and your body and your emotions. And we that through live streaming a lot of communications, recording a lot of videos. sent asynchronous video messages. So I send … I record my screen and just send a out to people. Every new hire does a video to welcome and introduce themselves. A lot of meetings we’ve actually replaced with just quick video presentations. And actually, that really did was allow the humanity and the context to come through and I think that us a lot to, kind of, stay close. So that was one, I think, really important thing.
Another thing is, I think, just creating mechanisms to make it easier to talk about when aren’t working, because a critical part of being agile recognizing we have an area that isn’t working. And one of the things that we do at Vimeo is we try — do this in all of my town halls, we do it in lot of meetings — is always talk about what’s working, what are our top three things, and isn’t working — yet. And we’ve kind of created, think, a framework that sort of takes the stigma from talking about what’s not working. And when you that normalized and comfortable for people, I feel like it’s allowed us to be open, as an organization, about what do we need to change, do we need to pivot. And both of those, being more video-first in our communication and more transparent and normalizing what’s not working, I think been really helpful, and certainly something we’re carrying forward.
SM: I love that advice about video-first. So many of our members of our workforce live a video world. They’re used to video as a means communication. Which brings me to my next question. You’ve talked how the organization has changed. How do you see workforce changing? What is different with the young millennials, and even, now, first wave of Gen Z coming into the workplace?
AS: I think it’s different. And, you know, one of the things that we think at Vimeo a lot is a lot of the and communication modes that we still use today, they’re antiquated. They were designed for a totally different environment and a totally different generation. I see a lot of differences. One of them, I think, is the line your personal life and work life is definitely blending. … If you think about your life — look at TikTok. This generation is used to content, learning, engaging, in a very specific way. And they then have to come to work and to be trained on job, read a 300-page manual? Like, it’s not going to happen, right? Or if miss the meeting, and you have to watch the Zoom recording of a three-hour meeting — that’s not going to happen. And so I think that is definitely sort of this — you know, we talk the “consumerization of enterprise.” Those are just fancy words for saying way … we communicate and interact in our personal lives is going translate to work. And so I definitely think that’s an area opportunity.
The other thing I see from sort of generation, the newest generation coming into the workforce, is sort of, course mission-driven, but I think there’s a desire to understand the “why” behind things. And one of our communication mantras is we talk about the “what” without the “why.” And I there’s a desire to — the idea that, well, there’s a hierarchy, or “My boss told that this is what we’re going to do” or — that, I think, is increasingly moving away, people, they don’t just want to do something because with formal authority told them to do it. They want do it because they understand why it matters, why it ties to the mission. And I think that forces leaders to really bring more of the “why” into how we communicate motivate people.
So those are two of the things I see, and then, you know, third I think is just flexibility. I think — and is true of all of us, but particularly the younger — I think they’re looking for flexibility and they options and choices. And it’s not always easy and to provide ultimate flexibility, but this is where I try and orient more to agility. How can we have approaches and principles and be committed to things, but also know to question, and when to actually pivot?
SM: Yeah. Anjali, can you share a few examples ways that you at Vimeo have tried to really proactive when it comes to addressing or understanding what your generation of employees are going to want, either in terms of purpose or in terms of or in terms of flexibility? Are there programs or processes you’ve put in place that speak to this big sea change we’re seeing in terms of from the workforce?
AS: Firstly, of course, it’s all about listening, right? And I think, like many organizations, way we’ve tried to listen and understand our workforce is very similar: it’s Q As and engagement surveys, and things like that. And of the things that we’ve done, we have a and culture NPS, net promoter score, the same way we for our users, for our internal teams. But I would one of the things that we’ve really tried to do is appreciate that when we get inputs our employees, 1,300 employees … you can’t look at averages. You can’t look at it all in totality and try and pull out an obvious “Oh, this how everybody’s feeling.” Because what you actually — when really dig into it and truly listen and do groups and talk to people — what you’ll find is actually there’s very experiences and desires among your employees. And so, I think for us, we’ve really just tried to do is have a bunch of different listening mechanisms then resist the urge to conveniently pull, like, “Oh, this is what everyone’s feeling, let’s just do this as the action.” And it’s hard, and we’re still kind of figuring it out, but I tell you, some of the things that we’ve heard from employees have changed our approach hybrid work or travel or even things like our approach compensation or our approach to DE and I. So think it’s more just like I said, that agile listening, constantly really understanding what’s happening, but not everything as, like, an average or the same. And for us, it’s particularly stark because we have offices and teams in many different countries and the differences, they’re substantial. They’re substantial, about the way we solve different things. And used to have a very, sort of, “One Vimeo” approach in the name of consistency and fairness, and what found is we have to be more localized. We really do. We have to design mechanisms to our teams in a very different way, because their and the world around them is quite different.
So think that’s definitely been one, and I will tell you, has involved a lot of — as an executive team and leadership — it’s involved a lot of trying things, it not working, and changing them. And a great example our Q and A. I feel like every leader I know has a on whether they do open Q and A or anonymous Q and A, real-time Q and A. We’ve changed our approach there multiple times, and I know will again, because we’re still figuring out the right way to listen have a dialogue with a very diverse workforce.
SM: I to stay on newcomers to the workplace for just another moment, another thing I hear from CEOs of my generation and older is a concern making sure that we are not just providing our youngest employees with the and the purpose that they need, but also the training the wisdom that comes, oftentimes, from being in close to a mentor or to somebody who’s done the job for many more years. What your philosophy and take on making sure that knowledge transfer is happening?
AS: I think it’s major challenge that I don’t know that everyone will of have a solution for. I think about that the time. We have a very distributed workforce at Vimeo. We have people in over eight countries. My team is entirely distributed. So I’ve really realized the benefits of being able have a distributed workforce and being able to attract talent and be more inclusive. On the flip side, there’s definitely, think, a lack of the same kinds of learning and mentorship, particularly for the youngest folks that are the workforce. So I think it’s a challenge. One of the approaches that we’ve taking, and what’s sort of nice, is we’re modeling it at the top. So if my entire team is distributed, that means I have to learn how to provide real-time feedback, mentorship and development a whole set of new executives who have just joined. We have sort of changed the executive team almost entirely in the last twelve months. So I’ve had to deal the same challenges. And we’ve had to literally — we it our operating system — we’ve had to design an operating system, an executive team, for how we’re going to work in that environment. How do we share real-time feedback? How do create the right communication loops? And so I think, from perspective, it’s more we have to be able to do it ourselves and model it and then, I it’s a more proven mechanism for young people. I will say, many companies … I do believe that in-person collaboration really important for learning. We do have — we people into an office. If you’re remote, we ask folks come in and spend time in a room with team, do social activities, all of those things. I don’t they will go away, nor do I think they should. But, you know, candidly, it’s area that I don’t think we’ve really figured out perfectly and think it’s really critical that as leaders, we do that, so that this next generation is able to the same growth opportunities that we all had.
SM: Well, and it’s interesting — the tools that you at the very beginning of our conversation, around video, be really helpful there. I’ve heard of a number of organizations that have encouraged their young people to present, as a way of having to go out and the information they need. And then, because we have video tools available us now, you know, they have an opportunity to share their ideas with a group of people, but first, kind of going through the fact-finding and research, and then sharing their ideas. In an earlier comment, you a little bit about mental illness and the different that people are bringing to work, whether it is, you know, exhaustion, burnout. During Black Lives Matter protests, we had a lot of people coming to the office feeling trauma, feeling really personal issues bubble to the surface. I’m wondering if you share a little bit about how you deal with increasing personal — you know, when people bring their selves to the office, which we encourage, sometimes, they things, parts of themselves that are challenging.
AS: Yeah … I’ve always the responsibility of a leader is to empower people to do their best and the responsibility of a company is to empower our to do their best work. And so, of course, we have a real role play in supporting things like mental-health issues or burnout. And, know, the way I think, like many companies, the way we initially probably sought to do that more, you know, you’re seeing a problem and you’re by trying to provide mental-health resources or support or off. And, I think — and empathy, just empathy. I think that’s really important. I always say, to so many of our managers … just care. we just care, a lot of things get easier. You don’t have to design a hundred mechanisms you just have the right people in place who care. At the same time, I say what we’re realizing now, in sort of this phase, is that that’s a reactive approach and actually the cause — that we can control at Vimeo — the root of a lot of stress and burnout is sometimes people don’t have enough … focus, we’re asking people to do too things or they don’t feel like they’re supported in doing those things. that, I think, is actually where we should be spending time — is how do we actually set the right prioritization focus. There’s some issue there, right? There’s a root cause there that’s “Oh, I feel like I’m stressed because there’s too going on. I don’t feel equipped to solve it.” Then, we should get into the “What is detail there, and do we need to do things differently?” And, you know, one our themes at Vimeo this year was “Do less, better.”
SM: As the starts to, maybe, move sideways, do you think that there are going to stakeholders who say, you know, “Out with all of touchy-feely, the workplace-as-a-family stuff. Where are my results?”
AS: Absolutely. think the pendulum has already swung pretty clearly. I mean, work in SAS, software as a service, so we went from “growth at all cost” to “profitability,” you know, swing. My perspective on this — and it hasn’t changed — I think the best leaders cultures deliver results and treat people well. And I actually think, if you treat well, with kindness and empathy, you will get better results. And so, you know, for me, I think I observed over the last few years is — part, I think, hasn’t changed and shouldn’t change. There were, I think, a of times when companies, we did things because maybe was lip service or we felt pressured. And that’s not going to be sustainable. that’s not what — ultimately, that’s not what people need, in any case. So, you know, I of see it as — the way you channel how you are caring towards employees and how you are empathetic, always should be in service of helping people their best work, which will deliver results, which will be good for the bottom line. And have to believe that. You have to be committed to that if you use that consistently in your decision-making, it should not be trade-off. These are not mutually exclusive things.
SM: Anjali, how have you been taking care yourself during this period of tremendous turmoil and change, but also growth? You mentioned you had a baby. There’s a lot on your shoulders. How, as a leader, do you practice some self-care how do you make sure that you’re getting the you need to be the most effective leader you can be?
AS: I think — recently, the I use a lot to myself is “two things be true, both can be true.” I say this lot. And for me, I think of it as, like, “This is hard, and it’s gotten harder.” We went public the height of the pandemic and last year, market volatility been tremendous. You know, we’re obviously going through a with post-pandemic, we have a team in Ukraine going through a — all these things that have happened. And so, it’s hard job, and it’s an incredibly privileged job. It’s a gift, right? so, I think for me, it’s sort of acknowledging both of those things has me a lot. The way I’ve tried to kind lead, has been — it’s always been this way, is, for me, it’s I have to have passion. I have to have passion. I have to so deeply that what Vimeo is doing is important and matters for the world. And if I passion, I have energy and then I will — I can kind of through anything. I have to find joy in my team. I feel like, in hard times, I look back at my career and actually, some my most fulfilling times in work were when — in hardest business situations. But it’s because it brought a group of together all on one team, and so I think that’s been, you know, a really part of it. And then, yeah, like, you have to be little selfish sometimes, and take care of yourself. And I am fortunate. I think I have a great support network me and I do … My husband and I a deal, where on Sundays, I disappear for a couple hours. I just disappear and I walk around the city and I listen my music and do whatever I need to do, that’s really important.
SM: So you talked about how hybrid work is going to look very different the future than how we describe it today. It’s basically in office couple of days, work from home a couple of other days. Tell us a bit more about what you could potentially see that evolving into.
AS: I think the idea an office as a time and place completely goes away. And I think it’s really going to people are going to want to work from anywhere, in the world. Even the concept of where you’re located is to change. And then the idea of like “I’m going to work this time zone” or “I’m going to attend this that’s scheduled on this date” — I think that’s to go away. And I think what you’re going to find is more and more work, particularly from workers, is going to be done anywhere, anytime. Communication and collaboration happen asynchronously and we will be using tools and technology — whether it’s video, whether it’s AI — basically enable that at scale among many people, anywhere in the world. And then I think leadership, leaders going to look different. Because I think it’s going to require — you think about the skill set to be a CEO 30 years ago versus what that will require — I think in the future … the skill set is to be like, “How do you communicate with diverse, global audiences and employees across time zones in way that is effective, that provides context and alignment scale? How do you organize programs, whether it’s compensation, it’s, you know, training?” All of that is going to look different. But I think the ultimate thing you’ll see is just … there were these constraints we’ve lived with, whether it was time or place or budget, in some cases. And I those constraints are going to go away. And the promise that if we are flexible and smart and we use in the right way, that we’ll actually come away much more evolved and efficient workforce.
SM: Well, I think just showed us some of the passion that you’ve about as being the thing that gives you energy to lead that organization of 1,300 people worldwide. Anjali, you so much for being here today.
AS: Thank you. This great.