Stephanie Mehta: Welcome, Anjali. I’m so glad you’re here with today.
Anjali Sud: Thank you, it is great to be here.
SM: At Vimeo, you lead a workforce of 1,300 people — you have creatives, you have finance people, you have technologists. So I’m going start with a really easy question: what was it to manage this diverse workforce through a global pandemic, a racial reckoning a very fraught return to office?
AS: Oh, it was a breeze, Stephanie. No, it was challenging. You know, I think the only constant has change. And as a leader, you obviously — you have a workforce that’s looking for certainty, they’re looking to control what’s happening around them. And I think what we all found, leaders, no matter what company you were … responsible for, was that couldn’t offer certainty, and you couldn’t always control the environment the things around you. And so, you know, for me, it was about agility. How do we stay flexible as a team? How do we communicate in real and keep people informed as we try and move through things? And then, also just how do we with more humanity? You know, for Vimeo, one of things I’ve really learned over the last few years is each experience the world so differently. We have employees who remote. We have an incredible team in Ukraine … who are on the front lines, who are literally at war. On the other hand, have people in different parts of the world who are experiencing mental-health challenges burnout, and so I think it was really just — the hardest part was not being able to give certainty, not being able to just apply a one-size-fits-all rule everyone. But I ultimately think it forced us, as a company, to build more trust, because to be agile and flexible, to lead with humanity, you have to trust each other. And so, I’m of optimistic that actually we’re emerging from this time with culture that is more flexible and nimble, and also, hopefully, more trust.
SM: Can you give an example of that you put into place, perhaps during the pandemic, to enhance or build trust or create a greater sense of community even to communicate that there is no certainty, that is a that you think you’ll continue to use in the organization far into future?
AS: There’s a couple of things that we did. One — and we are a video platform, so obviously have to talk about video, but I mean sincerely — one of the hardest parts, when you’re all sort disparate, is you lose context and you lose nuance you communicate. And we did make a concerted effort to move away email and chat, text-based communication, as much as possible, and actually try, particularly for our leadership team, when were communicating, to do it with your face, and your hands and body and your emotions. And we did that through live streaming a lot of communications, recording lot of videos. We sent asynchronous video messages. So send … I record my screen and just send a note to people. Every new hire does a video to and introduce themselves. A lot of our meetings we’ve actually replaced with quick video presentations. And actually, what that really did allow the humanity and the context to come through I think that helped us a lot to, kind of, close. So that was one, I think, really important thing.
Another important thing is, I think, just creating mechanisms to it easier to talk about when things aren’t working, because a critical of being agile is recognizing we have an area isn’t working. And so one of the things that we do Vimeo is we try — I do this in all of my town halls, we do it a lot of meetings — is always talk about what’s working, what are top three things, and what isn’t working — yet. we’ve kind of created, I think, a framework that of takes the stigma away from talking about what’s not working. And when you make that normalized comfortable for people, I feel like it’s allowed us to more open, as an organization, about what do we need to change, what we need to pivot. And both of those, being more video-first in our and being more transparent and normalizing what’s not working, I has been really helpful, and certainly something we’re carrying forward.
SM: I love that advice being video-first. So many of our members of our live in a video world. They’re used to video as a means communication. Which brings me to my next question. You’ve talked about how the has changed. How do you see the workforce changing? is different with the young millennials, and even, now, first wave of Gen Z coming into the workplace?
AS: think it’s incredibly different. And, you know, one of the things that we think at Vimeo a lot is a lot of the mechanisms and communication modes we still use today, they’re really antiquated. They were designed for totally different environment and a totally different generation. But I see a lot of differences. One of them, think, is the line between your personal life and work life definitely blending. … If you think about your personal life — look at TikTok. This generation is used consuming content, learning, engaging, in a very specific way. And if they then have to come to and to be trained on a job, read a 300-page manual? Like, it’s not going happen, right? Or if you miss the meeting, and you have to watch the recording of a three-hour meeting — that’s just not to happen. And so I think that there is definitely sort of this — you know, we talk about “consumerization of enterprise.” Those are just fancy words for the way … we communicate and interact in our lives is going to translate to work. And so definitely think that’s an area of opportunity.
The other thing I from sort of the generation, the newest generation coming into the workforce, is sort of, of mission-driven, but I think there’s a desire to really understand the “why” behind things. And one of communication mantras is we never talk about the “what” without the “why.” And think there’s a desire to — the idea that, well, there’s hierarchy, or “My boss told me that this is what we’re going do” or — that, I think, is increasingly moving away, and people, they don’t just want to something because someone with formal authority told them to do it. They want do it because they understand why it matters, why it ties to the mission. I think that that forces leaders to really bring more of “why” into how we communicate and motivate people.
So those are two of the things see, and then, you know, the third I think just flexibility. I think — and this is true of of us, but particularly the younger generation — I think they’re looking for flexibility and they want and choices. And it’s not always easy and feasible provide ultimate flexibility, but this is where I try orient it more to agility. How can we have and principles and be committed to things, but also when to question, and when to actually pivot?
SM: Yeah. Anjali, can share a few examples of ways that you at Vimeo have tried to be proactive when it comes to addressing or understanding what your generation of employees are going to want, either in terms of purpose or terms of benefits or in terms of flexibility? Are there programs processes you’ve put in place that really speak to this big change we’re seeing in terms of values from the workforce?
AS: Firstly, course, it’s all about listening, right? And I think, like organizations, the way we’ve tried to listen and understand our workforce is very similar: it’s Q and As engagement surveys, and things like that. And some of the things we’ve done, we have a people and culture NPS, net score, the same way we have for our users, for internal teams. But I would say one of the things that we’ve really tried to do is that when we get inputs from our employees, 1,300 employees … can’t look at the averages. You can’t look at it in totality and try and pull out an obvious “Oh, this is everybody’s feeling.” Because what you actually — when you really into it and truly listen and do focus groups and talk to people — what you’ll is actually there’s very different experiences and desires among your employees. so, I think for us, what we’ve really just to do is have a bunch of different listening mechanisms and then resist the to conveniently pull, like, “Oh, this is what everyone’s feeling, let’s do this thing as the action.” And it’s hard, we’re still kind of figuring it out, but I tell you, some of the things that we’ve heard from employees have changed our to hybrid work or travel or even things like our approach to compensation or our approach DE and I. So I think it’s more just like I said, that listening, constantly really understanding what’s happening, but not treating everything as, like, average or the same. And for us, it’s been particularly stark because we have offices and teams in so different countries and the differences, they’re substantial. They’re really substantial, the way we solve different things. And we used to a very, sort of, “One Vimeo” global approach in the of consistency and fairness, and what we found is we have to be more localized. really do. We have to design mechanisms to support our teams in a very different way, because their and the world around them is quite different.
So think that’s definitely been one, and I will tell you, has involved a lot of — as an executive and leadership team — it’s involved a lot of trying things, not working, and changing them. And a great example our Q and A. I feel like every leader I know has a perspective on whether do open Q and A or anonymous Q and A, real-time Q and A. We’ve changed our approach there multiple times, and I know we will again, we’re still figuring out the right way to listen and have a dialogue with a diverse workforce.
SM: I want to stay on newcomers to the for just another moment, because another thing I hear from CEOs of my generation older is a concern about making sure that we are just providing our youngest employees with the flexibility and purpose that they need, but also the training and the wisdom that comes, oftentimes, from in close proximity to a mentor or to somebody who’s done the job for more years. What is your philosophy and take on making that knowledge transfer is happening?
AS: I think it’s major challenge that I don’t know that everyone will sort of have solution for. I think about that all the time. have a very distributed workforce at Vimeo. We have people in over eight countries. executive team is entirely distributed. So I’ve really realized the of being able to have a distributed workforce and being able to attract talent and be more inclusive. On the flip side, there’s definitely, I think, a lack of the same of learning opportunities and mentorship, particularly for the youngest folks that entering the workforce. So I think it’s a challenge. One of the that we’ve been taking, and what’s sort of nice, we’re modeling it at the top. So if my executive team is distributed, that means I have to learn how to provide real-time feedback, mentorship development for a whole set of new executives who just joined. We have sort of changed up the team almost entirely in the last twelve months. So I’ve to deal with the same challenges. And we’ve had to literally — we call it our system — we’ve had to design an operating system, as an executive team, for how we’re going work together in that environment. How do we share real-time feedback? How do we create the right communication loops? so I think, from my perspective, it’s more we have to able to do it ourselves and model it and then, I it’s a more proven mechanism for young people. I say, like many companies … I do believe that in-person is really important for learning. We do have — we bring people an office. If you’re remote, we ask folks to in and spend time in a room with their team, do social activities, all of those things. I don’t think will go away, nor do I think they should. But, you know, candidly, it’s an that I don’t think we’ve really figured out perfectly I think it’s really critical that as leaders, we do that, so that this generation is able to get the same growth opportunities we all had.
SM: Well, and it’s interesting — tools that you mentioned at the very beginning of our conversation, around video, be really helpful there. I’ve heard of a number of organizations that have really encouraged young people to present, as a way of having go out and find the information they need. And then, because have video tools available to us now, you know, have an opportunity to share their ideas with a group of people, but first, kind of going through fact-finding and the research, and then sharing their ideas. In an comment, you talked a little bit about mental illness and the different that people are bringing to work, whether it is, you know, exhaustion, burnout. During the Black Lives protests, we had a lot of people coming to office feeling trauma, and feeling really personal issues bubble to surface. I’m wondering if you can share a little bit how you deal with this increasing personal — you know, when people bring their selves to the office, which we encourage, sometimes, they bring things, parts of that are challenging.
AS: Yeah … I’ve always thought the responsibility of a is to empower people to do their best work the responsibility of a company is to empower our people to do their best work. so, of course, we have a real role to play in supporting things mental-health issues or burnout. And, you know, the way I think, like companies, the way we initially probably sought to do that was more, you know, you’re seeing problem and you’re reacting by trying to provide mental-health or support or time off. And, I think — and empathy, just empathy. I that’s really important. And I always say, to so many our managers … just care. If we just care, a lot of things easier. You don’t have to design a hundred mechanisms if you just the right people in place who care. At the same time, I will say what we’re now, in sort of this next phase, is that that’s a reactive approach and actually the root cause — we can control at Vimeo — the root cause of a lot of stress and burnout is sometimes either don’t have enough … focus, we’re asking people to do too many things they don’t feel like they’re supported in doing those things. that, I think, is actually where we should be spending more — is how do we actually set the right prioritization and focus. There’s issue there, right? There’s a root cause there that’s a “Oh, I like I’m stressed because there’s too much going on. I don’t feel to solve it.” Then, we should get into the “What the detail there, and do we need to do differently?” And, you know, one of our themes at this year was “Do less, better.”
SM: As the starts to, maybe, move sideways, do you think that there are going be stakeholders who say, you know, “Out with all of this touchy-feely, workplace-as-a-family stuff. Where are my results?”
AS: Absolutely. I think the pendulum has already swung pretty clearly. mean, I work in SAS, software as a service, we already went from “growth at all cost” to “profitability,” you know, swing. My perspective on this — and it hasn’t changed — I think best leaders and cultures deliver results and treat people well. And I actually think, if you people well, with kindness and empathy, you will get results. And so, you know, for me, I think what I observed over the last years is — that part, I think, hasn’t changed and shouldn’t change. There were, I think, a of times when companies, we did things because maybe it was lip or we felt pressured. And that’s not going to sustainable. But that’s not what — ultimately, that’s not what need, in any case. So, you know, I sort of see it as — the you channel how you are caring towards your employees and how you are empathetic, should be in service of helping people do their best work, which deliver results, which will be good for the bottom line. you have to believe that. You have to be committed to that and if you use that consistently your decision-making, it should not be a trade-off. These are not mutually things.
SM: Anjali, how have you been taking care of yourself during period of tremendous turmoil and change, but also growth? You mentioned you just had a baby. There’s a on your shoulders. How, as a leader, do you practice self-care or how do you make sure that you’re getting the you need to be the most effective leader you can be?
AS: think — recently, the phrase I use a lot to is “two things can be true, both can be true.” I say this lot. And for me, I think of it as, like, “This job is hard, it’s gotten harder.” We went public at the height of pandemic and last year, market volatility has been tremendous. know, we’re obviously going through a ton with post-pandemic, we have team in Ukraine going through a war — all these things have happened. And so, it’s a hard job, and it’s an incredibly privileged job. It’s a gift, right? so, I think for me, it’s sort of acknowledging of those things has helped me a lot. The I’ve tried to kind of lead, has been — it’s been this way, which is, for me, it’s I have to have passion. have to have passion. I have to believe so that what Vimeo is doing is important and matters the world. And if I have passion, I have energy and I will — I can kind of move through anything. I to find joy in my team. I feel like, especially in times, I look back at my career and actually, some of my most fulfilling times in were when — in the hardest business situations. But it’s because it brought a group people together all on one team, and so I that’s been, you know, a really big part of it. And then, yeah, like, you have to be little selfish sometimes, and take care of yourself. And am really fortunate. I think I have a great support around me and I do … My husband and have a deal, where on Sundays, I disappear for a couple of hours. I just disappear and walk around the city and I listen to my and do whatever I need to do, and that’s important.
SM: So you talked about how hybrid work is going look very different in the future than how we describe it today. It’s basically in office a of days, work from home a couple of other days. us a little bit more about what you could potentially see that evolving into.
AS: think the idea of an office as a time and place completely goes away. And I it’s really going to be people are going to want to work from anywhere, anywhere the world. Even the concept of where you’re located going to change. And then the idea of like “I’m to work on this time zone” or “I’m going to attend this meeting that’s on this date” — I think that’s going to away. And I think what you’re going to find more and more work, particularly from knowledge workers, is going to be done anywhere, anytime. Communication and will happen asynchronously and we will be using tools and — whether it’s video, whether it’s AI — to basically enable that at scale among many people, in the world. And then I think leadership, leaders are to look different. Because I think it’s going to — if you think about the skill set to be a CEO 30 years ago versus what that will require — I think in the future … the skill is going to be like, “How do you communicate with diverse, global audiences and employees across time zones in a that is effective, that provides context and alignment at scale? do you organize programs, whether it’s compensation, whether it’s, know, training?” All of that is going to look different. But I think the ultimate thing you’ll see is just … there were these constraints that we’ve with, whether it was time or place or budget, in some cases. I think those constraints are going to go away. the promise is that if we are flexible and and we use technology in the right way, that we’ll actually come a much more evolved and efficient workforce.
SM: Well, I think you just showed us some of passion that you’ve talked about as being the thing that gives you energy lead that organization of 1,300 people worldwide. Anjali, thank you much for being here today.
AS: Thank you. This great.