Stephanie Mehta: Welcome, Anjali. I’m so glad you’re with us today.
Anjali Sud: Thank you, it is to be here.
SM: At Vimeo, you lead a workforce of 1,300 people worldwide — have creatives, you have finance people, you have technologists. So I’m going to with a really easy question: what was it like to this diverse workforce through a global pandemic, a racial and a very fraught return to office?
AS: Oh, it a breeze, Stephanie. No, it was really challenging. You know, I think the only constant been change. And as a leader, you obviously — you have a workforce that’s looking certainty, and they’re looking to control what’s happening around them. And I think what we all found, leaders, no matter what company you were … responsible for, that you couldn’t offer certainty, and you couldn’t always control the environment the things around you. And so, you know, for me, it was really about agility. How do we stay as a team? How do we communicate in real time and keep people informed as we and move through things? And then, also just how do lead with more humanity? You know, for Vimeo, one of the things I’ve really over the last few years is we each experience the so differently. We have employees who are remote. We have incredible team in Ukraine … employees who are on the front lines, who are at war. On the other hand, you have people in different of the world who are experiencing mental-health challenges or burnout, and so I think was really just — the hardest part was not being able to give everyone certainty, being able to just apply a one-size-fits-all rule for everyone. But I ultimately it forced us, as a company, to build more trust, because be agile and flexible, and to lead with humanity, have to trust each other. And so, I’m sort of optimistic that we’re emerging from this time with a culture that is more flexible nimble, and also, hopefully, has more trust.
SM: Can you give an example of something that you into place, perhaps during the pandemic, to enhance communications or build trust or create a greater sense community or even to communicate that there is no certainty, that a muscle that you think you’ll continue to use the organization far into the future?
AS: There’s a of things that we did. One — and we are a video platform, so obviously have to talk about video, but I mean this — one of the hardest parts, when you’re all sort of disparate, is you context and you lose nuance when you communicate. And we did make a concerted to move away from email and chat, text-based communication, as much as possible, and actually try, for our leadership team, when we were communicating, to it with your face, and your hands and your body and your emotions. And we did that through streaming a lot of communications, recording a lot of videos. We sent asynchronous video messages. I send … I record my screen and just send a out to people. Every new hire does a video to welcome and introduce themselves. lot of our meetings we’ve actually replaced with just quick presentations. And actually, what that really did was allow humanity and the context to come through and I that helped us a lot to, kind of, stay close. that was one, I think, really important thing.
Another important thing is, I think, creating mechanisms to make it easier to talk about when things aren’t working, because a critical part being agile is recognizing we have an area that isn’t working. And so one of the things that we at Vimeo is we try — I do this all of my town halls, we do it in a of meetings — is always talk about what’s working, what our top three things, and what isn’t working — yet. And we’ve kind of created, I think, framework that sort of takes the stigma away from about what’s not working. And when you make that and comfortable for people, I feel like it’s allowed us be more open, as an organization, about what do we need to change, what do we need pivot. And both of those, being more video-first in our communication being more transparent and normalizing what’s not working, I think has really helpful, and certainly something we’re carrying forward.
SM: I that advice about being video-first. So many of our members our workforce live in a video world. They’re used to video as a means of communication. Which brings to my next question. You’ve talked about how the organization has changed. How do see the workforce changing? What is different with the young millennials, and even, now, first wave of Gen Z coming into the workplace?
AS: I think it’s different. And, you know, one of the things that think about at Vimeo a lot is a lot of the mechanisms and communication that we still use today, they’re really antiquated. They designed for a totally different environment and a totally different generation. But I see lot of differences. One of them, I think, is the line your personal life and work life is definitely blending. … you think about your personal life — look at TikTok. This is used to consuming content, learning, engaging, in a very specific way. And if they have to come to work and to be trained on a job, read 300-page manual? Like, it’s not going to happen, right? Or you miss the meeting, and you have to watch Zoom recording of a three-hour meeting — that’s just going to happen. And so I think that there is definitely of this — you know, we talk about the “consumerization of enterprise.” Those are just fancy for saying the way … we communicate and interact in our personal lives is going to translate work. And so I definitely think that’s an area of opportunity.
The thing I see from sort of the generation, the newest generation coming the workforce, is sort of, of course mission-driven, but I there’s a desire to really understand the “why” behind things. one of our communication mantras is we never talk about the “what” without the “why.” And I there’s a desire to — the idea that, well, there’s a hierarchy, “My boss told me that this is what we’re going to do” — that, I think, is increasingly moving away, and people, they don’t just to do something because someone with formal authority told to do it. They want to do it because they understand why matters, why it ties to the mission. And I think that that forces leaders really bring more of the “why” into how we communicate and motivate people.
So those are of the things I see, and then, you know, the third I think is just flexibility. I — and this is true of all of us, but particularly the generation — I think they’re looking for flexibility and they want options and choices. it’s not always easy and feasible to provide ultimate flexibility, this is where I try and orient it more to agility. How can we have approaches and and be committed to things, but also know when question, and when to actually pivot?
SM: Yeah. Anjali, can you share a few of ways that you at Vimeo have tried to really be proactive when it to addressing or understanding what your next generation of are going to want, either in terms of purpose or in terms of benefits or in terms flexibility? Are there programs or processes you’ve put in place that really speak to this sea change we’re seeing in terms of values from workforce?
AS: Firstly, of course, it’s all about listening, right? And think, like many organizations, the way we’ve tried to listen understand our workforce is very similar: it’s Q and As and surveys, and things like that. And some of the things that we’ve done, we have a and culture NPS, net promoter score, the same way we have our users, for our internal teams. But I would say of the things that we’ve really tried to do is that when we get inputs from our employees, 1,300 employees … you can’t at the averages. You can’t look at it all totality and try and pull out an obvious “Oh, this is how everybody’s feeling.” Because you actually — when you really dig into it and truly listen and focus groups and talk to people — what you’ll find is actually there’s different experiences and desires among your employees. And so, think for us, what we’ve really just tried to is have a bunch of different listening mechanisms and then resist urge to conveniently pull, like, “Oh, this is what everyone’s feeling, let’s do this thing as the action.” And it’s hard, we’re still kind of figuring it out, but I tell you, some of the things that we’ve heard from employees changed our approach to hybrid work or travel or even things like our approach to compensation our approach to DE and I. So I think it’s more just like I said, agile listening, constantly really understanding what’s happening, but not treating as, like, an average or the same. And for us, it’s been particularly stark we have offices and teams in so many different countries and differences, they’re substantial. They’re really substantial, about the way we solve things. And we used to have a very, sort of, “One Vimeo” global approach in the name of and fairness, and what we found is we have to more localized. We really do. We have to design mechanisms support our teams in a very different way, because their and the world around them is quite different.
So think that’s definitely been one, and I will tell you, has involved a lot of — as an executive team and team — it’s involved a lot of trying things, not working, and changing them. And a great example is our and A. I feel like every leader I know has a perspective on whether they do Q and A or anonymous Q and A, or real-time and A. We’ve changed our approach there multiple times, and I know we again, because we’re still figuring out the right way listen and have a dialogue with a very diverse workforce.
SM: I want to stay newcomers to the workplace for just another moment, because another thing I hear from CEOs of generation and older is a concern about making sure that are not just providing our youngest employees with the flexibility the purpose that they need, but also the training and wisdom that comes, oftentimes, from being in close proximity to a or to somebody who’s done the job for many more years. What is your philosophy and take on sure that knowledge transfer is happening?
AS: I think it’s a challenge that I don’t know that everyone will sort have a solution for. I think about that all the time. have a very distributed workforce at Vimeo. We have people in over eight countries. executive team is entirely distributed. So I’ve really realized the of being able to have a distributed workforce and able to attract talent and just be more inclusive. On the flip side, there’s definitely, I think, lack of the same kinds of learning opportunities and mentorship, particularly the youngest folks that are entering the workforce. So think it’s a challenge. One of the approaches that we’ve taking, and what’s sort of nice, is we’re modeling at the top. So if my entire executive team is distributed, that means I to learn how to provide real-time feedback, mentorship and development for a set of new executives who have just joined. We have sort of changed up the team almost entirely in the last twelve months. So I’ve had to deal with same challenges. And we’ve had to literally — we call it our operating system — we’ve had design an operating system, as an executive team, for we’re going to work together in that environment. How do we share real-time feedback? How we create the right communication loops? And so I think, my perspective, it’s more we have to be able to do it ourselves model it and then, I think it’s a more proven mechanism for young people. I will say, many companies … I do believe that in-person collaboration is really important for learning. We have — we bring people into an office. If you’re remote, we ask folks to in and spend time in a room with their team, social activities, all of those things. I don’t think they will go away, do I think they should. But, you know, candidly, it’s an that I don’t think we’ve really figured out perfectly and I think it’s critical that as leaders, we do that, so that this next generation is to get the same growth opportunities that we all had.
SM: Well, it’s interesting — the tools that you mentioned at the beginning of our conversation, around video, can be really helpful there. I’ve heard of number of organizations that have really encouraged their young people to present, as a way of having to out and find the information they need. And then, because we have video available to us now, you know, they have an opportunity to share their ideas with large group of people, but first, kind of going through the fact-finding the research, and then sharing their ideas. In an earlier comment, you talked a little bit about illness and the different things that people are bringing work, whether it is, you know, exhaustion, burnout. During the Lives Matter protests, we had a lot of people coming to the office feeling trauma, and really personal issues bubble to the surface. I’m wondering you can share a little bit about how you deal this increasing personal — you know, when people bring their whole selves the office, which we encourage, sometimes, they bring things, parts of themselves that challenging.
AS: Yeah … I’ve always thought the responsibility of a leader to empower people to do their best work and the responsibility of a company to empower our people to do their best work. And so, of course, have a real role to play in supporting things like mental-health or burnout. And, you know, the way I think, like many companies, the way we initially probably sought do that was more, you know, you’re seeing a problem and you’re reacting by trying to mental-health resources or support or time off. And, I think — and empathy, just empathy. I that’s really important. And I always say, to so many of managers … just care. If we just care, a lot of things get easier. You don’t have to a hundred mechanisms if you just have the right people place who care. At the same time, I will say what we’re realizing now, in sort of next phase, is that that’s a reactive approach and actually root cause — that we can control at Vimeo — the cause of a lot of stress and burnout is sometimes either don’t have enough … focus, we’re asking people to do many things or they don’t feel like they’re supported doing those things. And that, I think, is actually we should be spending more time — is how we actually set the right prioritization and focus. There’s issue there, right? There’s a root cause there that’s a “Oh, I feel I’m stressed because there’s too much going on. I don’t feel equipped solve it.” Then, we should get into the “What the detail there, and do we need to do things differently?” And, you know, one of our themes Vimeo this year was “Do less, better.”
SM: As economy starts to, maybe, move sideways, do you think that there are going to be who say, you know, “Out with all of this touchy-feely, workplace-as-a-family stuff. Where are my results?”
AS: Absolutely. I the pendulum has already swung pretty clearly. I mean, work in SAS, software as a service, so we went from “growth at all cost” to “profitability,” you know, pendulum swing. My perspective this — and it hasn’t changed — I think the best leaders and cultures deliver results and treat well. And I actually think, if you treat people well, with kindness and empathy, you get better results. And so, you know, for me, I think what I observed the last few years is — that part, I think, hasn’t and shouldn’t change. There were, I think, a lot of times companies, we did things because maybe it was lip service or we pressured. And that’s not going to be sustainable. But that’s what — ultimately, that’s not what people need, in case. So, you know, I sort of see it — the way you channel how you are caring towards employees and how you are empathetic, always should be in service of helping people do best work, which will deliver results, which will be good the bottom line. And you have to believe that. have to be committed to that and if you use that consistently in your decision-making, should not be a trade-off. These are not mutually exclusive things.
SM: Anjali, have you been taking care of yourself during this of tremendous turmoil and change, but also growth? You you just had a baby. There’s a lot on shoulders. How, as a leader, do you practice some self-care or how do make sure that you’re getting the balance you need be the most effective leader you can be?
AS: think — recently, the phrase I use a lot myself is “two things can be true, both can true.” I say this a lot. And for me, I think of as, like, “This job is hard, and it’s gotten harder.” We public at the height of the pandemic and last year, market volatility has been tremendous. know, we’re obviously going through a ton with post-pandemic, we have team in Ukraine going through a war — all these things that happened. And so, it’s a hard job, and it’s an privileged job. It’s a gift, right? And so, I think for me, it’s sort acknowledging both of those things has helped me a lot. way I’ve tried to kind of lead, has been — it’s always this way, which is, for me, it’s I have have passion. I have to have passion. I have believe so deeply that what Vimeo is doing is important matters for the world. And if I have passion, I have energy and then I — I can kind of move through anything. I have to find joy in my team. I like, especially in hard times, I look back at my career and actually, of my most fulfilling times in work were when — in the business situations. But it’s because it brought a group people together all on one team, and so I that’s been, you know, a really big part of it. then, yeah, like, you have to be a little selfish sometimes, take care of yourself. And I am really fortunate. I think I have a great support network me and I do … My husband and I have deal, where on Sundays, I disappear for a couple of hours. I just disappear and walk around the city and I listen to my music and do whatever I to do, and that’s really important.
SM: So you talked about how hybrid work going to look very different in the future than how we it today. It’s basically in office a couple of days, work from home a couple other days. Tell us a little bit more about what you could see that evolving into.
AS: I think the idea of an office as a time and completely goes away. And I think it’s really going to be people are going want to work from anywhere, anywhere in the world. Even the of where you’re located is going to change. And then the idea of like “I’m going work on this time zone” or “I’m going to this meeting that’s scheduled on this date” — I that’s going to go away. And I think what you’re going to find is more more work, particularly from knowledge workers, is going to be anywhere, anytime. Communication and collaboration will happen asynchronously and we will be tools and technology — whether it’s video, whether it’s — to basically enable that at scale among many people, anywhere in world. And then I think leadership, leaders are going look different. Because I think it’s going to require — if you think about the skill to be a global CEO 30 years ago versus what that will require now — I think in future … the skill set is going to be like, “How do communicate with diverse, global audiences and employees across time in a way that is effective, that provides context and alignment at scale? How do you programs, whether it’s compensation, whether it’s, you know, training?” All of is going to look very different. But I think the ultimate thing you’ll see is just … were these constraints that we’ve lived with, whether it was or place or budget, in some cases. And I think constraints are going to go away. And the promise is that if we are flexible and and we use technology in the right way, that we’ll actually come away a much more evolved efficient workforce.
SM: Well, I think you just showed us some the passion that you’ve talked about as being the thing that gives you energy lead that organization of 1,300 people worldwide. Anjali, thank you so much for here today.
AS: Thank you. This was great.