Stephanie Mehta: Welcome, Anjali. I’m so glad you’re with us today.
Anjali Sud: Thank you, it is to be here.
SM: At Vimeo, you lead a of 1,300 people worldwide — you have creatives, you finance people, you have technologists. So I’m going to start a really easy question: what was it like to manage this diverse workforce a global pandemic, a racial reckoning and a very fraught return office?
AS: Oh, it was a breeze, Stephanie. No, was really challenging. You know, I think the only constant been change. And as a leader, you obviously — you have a workforce that’s looking certainty, and they’re looking to control what’s happening around them. And think what we all found, as leaders, no matter what company you were … responsible for, that you couldn’t offer certainty, and you couldn’t always control the environment and the around you. And so, you know, for me, it really about agility. How do we stay flexible as a team? How we communicate in real time and keep people informed as we try move through things? And then, also just how do we lead with humanity? You know, for Vimeo, one of the things I’ve really over the last few years is we each experience world so differently. We have employees who are remote. We have an incredible in Ukraine … employees who are on the front lines, who are at war. On the other hand, you have people in parts of the world who are experiencing mental-health challenges or burnout, and so I think it was really — the hardest part was not being able to give everyone certainty, not being able to just a one-size-fits-all rule for everyone. But I ultimately think forced us, as a company, to build more trust, because to be agile flexible, and to lead with humanity, you have to trust other. And so, I’m sort of optimistic that actually we’re emerging this time with a culture that is more flexible nimble, and also, hopefully, has more trust.
SM: Can give an example of something that you put into place, perhaps during the pandemic, to enhance communications build trust or create a greater sense of community even to communicate that there is no certainty, that is a muscle that you think you’ll continue to in the organization far into the future?
AS: There’s a couple things that we did. One — and we are a video platform, so I have to talk about video, but I mean this sincerely — one the hardest parts, when you’re all sort of disparate, is you lose context and lose nuance when you communicate. And we did make a concerted to move away from email and chat, text-based communication, as much possible, and actually try, particularly for our leadership team, when were communicating, to do it with your face, and your hands your body and your emotions. And we did that through live streaming a lot communications, recording a lot of videos. We sent asynchronous messages. So I send … I record my screen and just a note out to people. Every new hire does a video to welcome and themselves. A lot of our meetings we’ve actually replaced with just quick video presentations. And actually, what that did was allow the humanity and the context to come through and I think that us a lot to, kind of, stay close. So was one, I think, really important thing.
Another important is, I think, just creating mechanisms to make it easier to talk when things aren’t working, because a critical part of being agile is we have an area that isn’t working. And so one of things that we do at Vimeo is we try — do this in all of my town halls, we do it in a of meetings — is always talk about what’s working, what are our three things, and what isn’t working — yet. And we’ve kind of created, I think, a framework that sort takes the stigma away from talking about what’s not working. And you make that normalized and comfortable for people, I feel like it’s allowed us to more open, as an organization, about what do we need change, what do we need to pivot. And both those, being more video-first in our communication and being more and normalizing what’s not working, I think has been really helpful, and certainly we’re carrying forward.
SM: I love that advice about being video-first. So many of members of our workforce live in a video world. They’re used to as a means of communication. Which brings me to my next question. You’ve talked about how organization has changed. How do you see the workforce changing? What is with the young millennials, and even, now, the first of Gen Z coming into the workplace?
AS: I think it’s different. And, you know, one of the things that we think about at a lot is a lot of the mechanisms and communication modes we still use today, they’re really antiquated. They were designed for a totally different environment and a different generation. But I see a lot of differences. One them, I think, is the line between your personal life work life is definitely blending. … If you think about your personal life — look at TikTok. This is used to consuming content, learning, engaging, in a very specific way. And if they have to come to work and to be trained on a job, read 300-page manual? Like, it’s not going to happen, right? Or you miss the meeting, and you have to watch Zoom recording of a three-hour meeting — that’s just not going to happen. And so I think there is definitely sort of this — you know, we about the “consumerization of enterprise.” Those are just fancy words saying the way … we communicate and interact in our personal lives is to translate to work. And so I definitely think that’s an area of opportunity.
The thing I see from sort of the generation, the newest coming into the workforce, is sort of, of course mission-driven, but I think there’s a desire to really the “why” behind things. And one of our communication mantras we never talk about the “what” without the “why.” And I think there’s a desire — the idea that, well, there’s a hierarchy, or “My boss told me this is what we’re going to do” or — that, I think, is increasingly away, and people, they don’t just want to do because someone with formal authority told them to do it. They to do it because they understand why it matters, why ties to the mission. And I think that that forces leaders to really bring more of the “why” how we communicate and motivate people.
So those are two of things I see, and then, you know, the third I is just flexibility. I think — and this is true of all us, but particularly the younger generation — I think they’re looking flexibility and they want options and choices. And it’s not always easy and feasible to ultimate flexibility, but this is where I try and orient it more to agility. How can have approaches and principles and be committed to things, but know when to question, and when to actually pivot?
SM: Yeah. Anjali, you share a few examples of ways that you Vimeo have tried to really be proactive when it comes to addressing or understanding what next generation of employees are going to want, either in terms of or in terms of benefits or in terms of flexibility? there programs or processes you’ve put in place that really speak to this sea change we’re seeing in terms of values from the workforce?
AS: Firstly, of course, it’s about listening, right? And I think, like many organizations, the we’ve tried to listen and understand our workforce is very similar: it’s Q and As engagement surveys, and things like that. And some of things that we’ve done, we have a people and NPS, net promoter score, the same way we have our users, for our internal teams. But I would say one of the things that we’ve tried to do is appreciate that when we get inputs from our employees, 1,300 … you can’t look at the averages. You can’t look at all in totality and try and pull out an “Oh, this is how everybody’s feeling.” Because what you actually — when really dig into it and truly listen and do groups and talk to people — what you’ll find is actually there’s very different experiences and desires your employees. And so, I think for us, what we’ve really just tried to do is have a bunch different listening mechanisms and then resist the urge to pull, like, “Oh, this is what everyone’s feeling, let’s do this thing as the action.” And it’s hard, and we’re still kind of figuring it out, I will tell you, some of the things that we’ve from employees have changed our approach to hybrid work or travel or even things like our approach to or our approach to DE and I. So I think it’s more just like said, that agile listening, constantly really understanding what’s happening, not treating everything as, like, an average or the same. for us, it’s been particularly stark because we have offices and teams in so many different countries the differences, they’re substantial. They’re really substantial, about the way solve different things. And we used to have a very, sort of, “One Vimeo” approach in the name of consistency and fairness, and what found is we have to be more localized. We really do. We have to design to support our teams in a very different way, because experiences and the world around them is quite different.
So think that’s definitely been one, and I will tell you, it has involved lot of — as an executive team and leadership team — it’s involved a of trying things, it not working, and changing them. And a example is our Q and A. I feel like every leader I know a perspective on whether they do open Q and A anonymous Q and A, or real-time Q and A. We’ve changed our there multiple times, and I know we will again, we’re still figuring out the right way to listen and have a dialogue with a diverse workforce.
SM: I want to stay on newcomers the workplace for just another moment, because another thing I hear CEOs of my generation and older is a concern about sure that we are not just providing our youngest employees with flexibility and the purpose that they need, but also the training and the wisdom comes, oftentimes, from being in close proximity to a mentor or to somebody who’s done job for many more years. What is your philosophy and on making sure that knowledge transfer is happening?
AS: think it’s a major challenge that I don’t know that everyone will of have a solution for. I think about that all the time. We have a distributed workforce at Vimeo. We have people in over eight countries. My team is entirely distributed. So I’ve really realized the benefits of being to have a distributed workforce and being able to talent and just be more inclusive. On the flip side, there’s definitely, I think, a lack of the same kinds learning opportunities and mentorship, particularly for the youngest folks that are entering workforce. So I think it’s a challenge. One of the that we’ve been taking, and what’s sort of nice, is we’re it at the top. So if my entire executive team is distributed, means I have to learn how to provide real-time feedback, mentorship development for a whole set of new executives who have joined. We have sort of changed up the executive almost entirely in the last twelve months. So I’ve to deal with the same challenges. And we’ve had to literally — we call it our operating — we’ve had to design an operating system, as an executive team, for how we’re going work together in that environment. How do we share real-time feedback? How do create the right communication loops? And so I think, from perspective, it’s more we have to be able to do it and model it and then, I think it’s a more proven mechanism for young people. will say, like many companies … I do believe that in-person collaboration is important for learning. We do have — we bring people into an office. you’re remote, we ask folks to come in and spend in a room with their team, do social activities, all of those things. I don’t they will go away, nor do I think they should. But, you know, candidly, it’s an area that I don’t we’ve really figured out perfectly and I think it’s really critical as leaders, we do that, so that this next is able to get the same growth opportunities that all had.
SM: Well, and it’s interesting — the tools you mentioned at the very beginning of our conversation, video, can be really helpful there. I’ve heard of number of organizations that have really encouraged their young people to present, as a of having to go out and find the information need. And then, because we have video tools available to us now, you know, they have an to share their ideas with a large group of people, but first, kind going through the fact-finding and the research, and then sharing their ideas. In an earlier comment, you a little bit about mental illness and the different that people are bringing to work, whether it is, know, exhaustion, burnout. During the Black Lives Matter protests, we had a lot people coming to the office feeling trauma, and feeling really personal issues to the surface. I’m wondering if you can share little bit about how you deal with this increasing personal — you know, when people their whole selves to the office, which we encourage, sometimes, they things, parts of themselves that are challenging.
AS: Yeah … I’ve always thought the of a leader is to empower people to do best work and the responsibility of a company is to empower our to do their best work. And so, of course, have a real role to play in supporting things like mental-health issues burnout. And, you know, the way I think, like many companies, the we initially probably sought to do that was more, know, you’re seeing a problem and you’re reacting by trying to mental-health resources or support or time off. And, I think — and empathy, just empathy. think that’s really important. And I always say, to so many of managers … just care. If we just care, a lot of get easier. You don’t have to design a hundred mechanisms you just have the right people in place who care. At same time, I will say what we’re realizing now, in sort of this next phase, that that’s a reactive approach and actually the root cause — that can control at Vimeo — the root cause of a of stress and burnout is sometimes people either don’t have … focus, we’re asking people to do too many things or they don’t like they’re supported in doing those things. And that, I think, is actually where should be spending more time — is how do we actually set the right prioritization and focus. There’s issue there, right? There’s a root cause there that’s a “Oh, I feel like I’m stressed because there’s much going on. I don’t feel equipped to solve it.” Then, we should get into the “What is detail there, and do we need to do things differently?” And, you know, one of themes at Vimeo this year was “Do less, better.”
SM: As the economy starts to, maybe, sideways, do you think that there are going to be stakeholders say, you know, “Out with all of this touchy-feely, workplace-as-a-family stuff. Where are my results?”
AS: Absolutely. I the pendulum has already swung pretty clearly. I mean, I in SAS, software as a service, so we already went from “growth at all cost” to “profitability,” know, pendulum swing. My perspective on this — and hasn’t changed — I think the best leaders and cultures deliver results and treat well. And I actually think, if you treat people well, with kindness and empathy, you will better results. And so, you know, for me, I think what I over the last few years is — that part, think, hasn’t changed and shouldn’t change. There were, I think, a lot of times when companies, we did things maybe it was lip service or we felt pressured. And that’s not going to be sustainable. that’s not what — ultimately, that’s not what people need, any case. So, you know, I sort of see it as — way you channel how you are caring towards your and how you are empathetic, always should be in service helping people do their best work, which will deliver results, which will be good for the line. And you have to believe that. You have to be to that and if you use that consistently in your decision-making, it should not a trade-off. These are not mutually exclusive things.
SM: Anjali, have you been taking care of yourself during this period of tremendous and change, but also growth? You mentioned you just had a baby. There’s lot on your shoulders. How, as a leader, do you practice some self-care how do you make sure that you’re getting the balance need to be the most effective leader you can be?
AS: I think — recently, the I use a lot to myself is “two things be true, both can be true.” I say this a lot. And for me, think of it as, like, “This job is hard, it’s gotten harder.” We went public at the height of the pandemic and year, market volatility has been tremendous. You know, we’re obviously going through a with post-pandemic, we have a team in Ukraine going through a war — all these things that happened. And so, it’s a hard job, and it’s an privileged job. It’s a gift, right? And so, I think for me, it’s sort acknowledging both of those things has helped me a lot. The way I’ve tried to of lead, has been — it’s always been this way, which is, for me, it’s I have have passion. I have to have passion. I have to believe deeply that what Vimeo is doing is important and for the world. And if I have passion, I have energy and then will — I can kind of move through anything. I have to joy in my team. I feel like, especially in hard times, I look back at my career actually, some of my most fulfilling times in work were when — in hardest business situations. But it’s because it brought a group of people all on one team, and so I think that’s been, know, a really big part of it. And then, yeah, like, you to be a little selfish sometimes, and take care yourself. And I am really fortunate. I think I have a support network around me and I do … My and I have a deal, where on Sundays, I for a couple of hours. I just disappear and I walk the city and I listen to my music and do whatever need to do, and that’s really important.
SM: So you talked about how hybrid work is going to very different in the future than how we describe it today. It’s basically in office a couple days, work from home a couple of other days. us a little bit more about what you could see that evolving into.
AS: I think the idea of office as a time and place completely goes away. And I think it’s really going to be are going to want to work from anywhere, anywhere in world. Even the concept of where you’re located is going to change. then the idea of like “I’m going to work on this time zone” “I’m going to attend this meeting that’s scheduled on date” — I think that’s going to go away. And think what you’re going to find is more and more work, particularly from knowledge workers, going to be done anywhere, anytime. Communication and collaboration will happen asynchronously and we be using tools and technology — whether it’s video, whether it’s AI — to basically enable that scale among many people, anywhere in the world. And then I think leadership, leaders going to look different. Because I think it’s going to require — if you think the skill set to be a global CEO 30 years ago versus what will require now — I think in the future … the skill is going to be like, “How do you communicate diverse, global audiences and employees across time zones in way that is effective, that provides context and alignment at scale? How you organize programs, whether it’s compensation, whether it’s, you know, training?” of that is going to look very different. But I think ultimate thing you’ll see is just … there were these constraints that we’ve lived with, whether was time or place or budget, in some cases. I think those constraints are going to go away. And the promise is that if we are and smart and we use technology in the right way, that we’ll actually away a much more evolved and efficient workforce.
SM: Well, I you just showed us some of the passion that you’ve about as being the thing that gives you energy to that organization of 1,300 people worldwide. Anjali, thank you much for being here today.
AS: Thank you. This great.