Stephanie Mehta: Welcome, Anjali. I’m so glad you’re here us today.
Anjali Sud: Thank you, it is great be here.
SM: At Vimeo, you lead a workforce of 1,300 people — you have creatives, you have finance people, you technologists. So I’m going to start with a really easy question: what was it like to this diverse workforce through a global pandemic, a racial and a very fraught return to office?
AS: Oh, it a breeze, Stephanie. No, it was really challenging. You know, I think the only has been change. And as a leader, you obviously — you have a that’s looking for certainty, and they’re looking to control what’s happening around them. I think what we all found, as leaders, no what company you were … responsible for, was that you couldn’t offer certainty, and you couldn’t control the environment and the things around you. And so, you know, for me, it really about agility. How do we stay flexible as a team? How do communicate in real time and keep people informed as we try and move things? And then, also just how do we lead with more humanity? You know, Vimeo, one of the things I’ve really learned over the last years is we each experience the world so differently. have employees who are remote. We have an incredible team in Ukraine … employees who on the front lines, who are literally at war. On the other hand, you have people in different parts the world who are experiencing mental-health challenges or burnout, and so I think it really just — the hardest part was not being to give everyone certainty, not being able to just a one-size-fits-all rule for everyone. But I ultimately think forced us, as a company, to build more trust, because to be and flexible, and to lead with humanity, you have to each other. And so, I’m sort of optimistic that actually we’re from this time with a culture that is more flexible and nimble, and also, hopefully, more trust.
SM: Can you give an example of something you put into place, perhaps during the pandemic, to enhance or build trust or create a greater sense of community or to communicate that there is no certainty, that is a muscle that you think you’ll continue to use in organization far into the future?
AS: There’s a couple of things that we did. One — and are a video platform, so I obviously have to about video, but I mean this sincerely — one of hardest parts, when you’re all sort of disparate, is you lose context and lose nuance when you communicate. And we did make a effort to move away from email and chat, text-based communication, much as possible, and actually try, particularly for our leadership team, when we were communicating, to do it your face, and your hands and your body and your emotions. And we did that live streaming a lot of communications, recording a lot videos. We sent asynchronous video messages. So I send … record my screen and just send a note out people. Every new hire does a video to welcome introduce themselves. A lot of our meetings we’ve actually replaced with just quick presentations. And actually, what that really did was allow the humanity and the to come through and I think that helped us a lot to, kind of, stay close. So was one, I think, really important thing.
Another important is, I think, just creating mechanisms to make it easier to talk when things aren’t working, because a critical part of being agile is we have an area that isn’t working. And so one of the things that we do at Vimeo is try — I do this in all of my town halls, we do it in lot of meetings — is always talk about what’s working, what our top three things, and what isn’t working — yet. And we’ve kind created, I think, a framework that sort of takes the stigma away from talking what’s not working. And when you make that normalized and comfortable for people, I feel it’s allowed us to be more open, as an organization, about what do we need to change, what do need to pivot. And both of those, being more video-first our communication and being more transparent and normalizing what’s working, I think has been really helpful, and certainly we’re carrying forward.
SM: I love that advice about video-first. So many of our members of our workforce live in a video world. They’re to video as a means of communication. Which brings me to my next question. You’ve talked about the organization has changed. How do you see the workforce changing? is different with the young millennials, and even, now, first wave of Gen Z coming into the workplace?
AS: think it’s incredibly different. And, you know, one of the that we think about at Vimeo a lot is a lot of the mechanisms and modes that we still use today, they’re really antiquated. were designed for a totally different environment and a totally different generation. But I see a lot differences. One of them, I think, is the line your personal life and work life is definitely blending. … If you about your personal life — look at TikTok. This generation is used to consuming content, learning, engaging, in very specific way. And if they then have to come work and to be trained on a job, read 300-page manual? Like, it’s not going to happen, right? if you miss the meeting, and you have to watch the Zoom recording a three-hour meeting — that’s just not going to happen. And I think that there is definitely sort of this — know, we talk about the “consumerization of enterprise.” Those are just words for saying the way … we communicate and interact in personal lives is going to translate to work. And I definitely think that’s an area of opportunity.
The thing I see from sort of the generation, the newest generation into the workforce, is sort of, of course mission-driven, but think there’s a desire to really understand the “why” behind things. one of our communication mantras is we never talk about the “what” the “why.” And I think there’s a desire to — idea that, well, there’s a hierarchy, or “My boss told me that this is what we’re to do” or — that, I think, is increasingly away, and people, they don’t just want to do something because someone with formal authority told them do it. They want to do it because they understand why it matters, why it ties to mission. And I think that that forces leaders to really bring more of the “why” into we communicate and motivate people.
So those are two the things I see, and then, you know, the third think is just flexibility. I think — and this true of all of us, but particularly the younger — I think they’re looking for flexibility and they want options and choices. And it’s not easy and feasible to provide ultimate flexibility, but this is I try and orient it more to agility. How can have approaches and principles and be committed to things, also know when to question, and when to actually pivot?
SM: Yeah. Anjali, can share a few examples of ways that you at Vimeo tried to really be proactive when it comes to addressing or understanding your next generation of employees are going to want, either in terms of purpose or terms of benefits or in terms of flexibility? Are programs or processes you’ve put in place that really speak to big sea change we’re seeing in terms of values from the workforce?
AS: Firstly, of course, it’s about listening, right? And I think, like many organizations, way we’ve tried to listen and understand our workforce very similar: it’s Q and As and engagement surveys, and like that. And some of the things that we’ve done, we a people and culture NPS, net promoter score, the same way we have our users, for our internal teams. But I would say one of the things we’ve really tried to do is appreciate that when we get inputs from employees, 1,300 employees … you can’t look at the averages. You can’t look at it all in and try and pull out an obvious “Oh, this is how everybody’s feeling.” Because what actually — when you really dig into it and truly listen and do groups and talk to people — what you’ll find is actually there’s very different experiences and among your employees. And so, I think for us, what we’ve really just tried to do is have bunch of different listening mechanisms and then resist the urge to conveniently pull, like, “Oh, this what everyone’s feeling, let’s just do this thing as the action.” And it’s hard, and we’re kind of figuring it out, but I will tell you, some of the things that we’ve heard employees have changed our approach to hybrid work or travel or even things like our approach compensation or our approach to DE and I. So I think it’s more like I said, that agile listening, constantly really understanding what’s happening, but treating everything as, like, an average or the same. And us, it’s been particularly stark because we have offices and teams so many different countries and the differences, they’re substantial. They’re really substantial, about way we solve different things. And we used to have a very, sort of, “One Vimeo” approach in the name of consistency and fairness, and what we found is have to be more localized. We really do. We to design mechanisms to support our teams in a very different way, because experiences and the world around them is quite different.
So I think that’s definitely one, and I will tell you, it has involved a lot — as an executive team and leadership team — it’s involved lot of trying things, it not working, and changing them. a great example is our Q and A. I feel like leader I know has a perspective on whether they do open Q and A or anonymous and A, or real-time Q and A. We’ve changed our approach there multiple times, and I we will again, because we’re still figuring out the way to listen and have a dialogue with a very diverse workforce.
SM: I want to on newcomers to the workplace for just another moment, another thing I hear from CEOs of my generation and older is concern about making sure that we are not just providing our youngest employees with flexibility and the purpose that they need, but also the and the wisdom that comes, oftentimes, from being in close to a mentor or to somebody who’s done the job for more years. What is your philosophy and take on making sure that knowledge transfer happening?
AS: I think it’s a major challenge that I don’t know that will sort of have a solution for. I think about that all the time. We have very distributed workforce at Vimeo. We have people in over countries. My executive team is entirely distributed. So I’ve really the benefits of being able to have a distributed workforce being able to attract talent and just be more inclusive. the flip side, there’s definitely, I think, a lack of the kinds of learning opportunities and mentorship, particularly for the youngest folks are entering the workforce. So I think it’s a challenge. One of the approaches we’ve been taking, and what’s sort of nice, is we’re modeling at the top. So if my entire executive team is distributed, that means I have to learn how provide real-time feedback, mentorship and development for a whole set of new executives who just joined. We have sort of changed up the executive almost entirely in the last twelve months. So I’ve to deal with the same challenges. And we’ve had to literally — we call our operating system — we’ve had to design an operating system, as executive team, for how we’re going to work together in that environment. How do we real-time feedback? How do we create the right communication loops? And so think, from my perspective, it’s more we have to be able to it ourselves and model it and then, I think it’s a more proven for young people. I will say, like many companies … I do believe that in-person is really important for learning. We do have — bring people into an office. If you’re remote, we folks to come in and spend time in a room with their team, do social activities, all of things. I don’t think they will go away, nor do think they should. But, you know, candidly, it’s an that I don’t think we’ve really figured out perfectly and I think it’s critical that as leaders, we do that, so that this next generation is to get the same growth opportunities that we all had.
SM: Well, it’s interesting — the tools that you mentioned at the beginning of our conversation, around video, can be really helpful there. I’ve heard of a of organizations that have really encouraged their young people to present, a way of having to go out and find the information they need. And then, we have video tools available to us now, you know, they have an to share their ideas with a large group of people, but first, kind of going the fact-finding and the research, and then sharing their ideas. an earlier comment, you talked a little bit about mental illness and different things that people are bringing to work, whether is, you know, exhaustion, burnout. During the Black Lives protests, we had a lot of people coming to the feeling trauma, and feeling really personal issues bubble to surface. I’m wondering if you can share a little bit about you deal with this increasing personal — you know, when people their whole selves to the office, which we encourage, sometimes, they bring things, parts of that are challenging.
AS: Yeah … I’ve always thought responsibility of a leader is to empower people to do their best and the responsibility of a company is to empower people to do their best work. And so, of course, we have real role to play in supporting things like mental-health or burnout. And, you know, the way I think, many companies, the way we initially probably sought to do that was more, you know, you’re a problem and you’re reacting by trying to provide mental-health resources support or time off. And, I think — and empathy, just empathy. I think that’s important. And I always say, to so many of managers … just care. If we just care, a of things get easier. You don’t have to design a hundred mechanisms you just have the right people in place who care. At same time, I will say what we’re realizing now, in sort of this phase, is that that’s a reactive approach and actually the root — that we can control at Vimeo — the root cause a lot of stress and burnout is sometimes people don’t have enough … focus, we’re asking people to too many things or they don’t feel like they’re supported doing those things. And that, I think, is actually where we should be spending more time — is do we actually set the right prioritization and focus. There’s some issue there, right? There’s a root there that’s a “Oh, I feel like I’m stressed there’s too much going on. I don’t feel equipped to solve it.” Then, we should into the “What is the detail there, and do we need to do differently?” And, you know, one of our themes at Vimeo this year “Do less, better.”
SM: As the economy starts to, maybe, sideways, do you think that there are going to be who say, you know, “Out with all of this touchy-feely, the workplace-as-a-family stuff. Where my results?”
AS: Absolutely. I think the pendulum has already swung pretty clearly. I mean, I work SAS, software as a service, so we already went from “growth at all cost” to “profitability,” know, pendulum swing. My perspective on this — and hasn’t changed — I think the best leaders and cultures deliver results and treat people well. I actually think, if you treat people well, with and empathy, you will get better results. And so, you know, for me, think what I observed over the last few years is — that part, I think, hasn’t and shouldn’t change. There were, I think, a lot of times when companies, we did things because it was lip service or we felt pressured. And that’s not to be sustainable. But that’s not what — ultimately, that’s what people need, in any case. So, you know, I of see it as — the way you channel how you are towards your employees and how you are empathetic, always should be in service of people do their best work, which will deliver results, which be good for the bottom line. And you have to believe that. You have to be to that and if you use that consistently in your decision-making, it should not be a trade-off. are not mutually exclusive things.
SM: Anjali, how have you been care of yourself during this period of tremendous turmoil change, but also growth? You mentioned you just had baby. There’s a lot on your shoulders. How, as leader, do you practice some self-care or how do make sure that you’re getting the balance you need to be the most effective leader you be?
AS: I think — recently, the phrase I a lot to myself is “two things can be true, can be true.” I say this a lot. And for me, think of it as, like, “This job is hard, it’s gotten harder.” We went public at the height of the and last year, market volatility has been tremendous. You know, we’re going through a ton with post-pandemic, we have a in Ukraine going through a war — all these things that have happened. so, it’s a hard job, and it’s an incredibly privileged job. It’s a gift, right? And so, think for me, it’s sort of acknowledging both of those things has helped me a lot. way I’ve tried to kind of lead, has been — it’s always been way, which is, for me, it’s I have to passion. I have to have passion. I have to believe deeply that what Vimeo is doing is important and matters for world. And if I have passion, I have energy and then I will — I can kind move through anything. I have to find joy in my team. I like, especially in hard times, I look back at my career and actually, some of my most times in work were when — in the hardest business situations. But it’s because it brought group of people together all on one team, and so I that’s been, you know, a really big part of it. And then, yeah, like, you have to be little selfish sometimes, and take care of yourself. And I really fortunate. I think I have a great support network around me and I do … husband and I have a deal, where on Sundays, disappear for a couple of hours. I just disappear and I walk around the city and I listen my music and do whatever I need to do, and that’s really important.
SM: So you talked how hybrid work is going to look very different in the future how we describe it today. It’s basically in office a couple of days, work from home a couple of days. Tell us a little bit more about what you could potentially see evolving into.
AS: I think the idea of an as a time and place completely goes away. And think it’s really going to be people are going want to work from anywhere, anywhere in the world. the concept of where you’re located is going to change. And the idea of like “I’m going to work on time zone” or “I’m going to attend this meeting that’s on this date” — I think that’s going to go away. And I think what you’re going to is more and more work, particularly from knowledge workers, is going to done anywhere, anytime. Communication and collaboration will happen asynchronously and we will be using and technology — whether it’s video, whether it’s AI — to basically that at scale among many people, anywhere in the world. then I think leadership, leaders are going to look different. Because I think it’s going to — if you think about the skill set to a global CEO 30 years ago versus what that will require now — I think the future … the skill set is going to be like, “How you communicate with diverse, global audiences and employees across zones in a way that is effective, that provides context and at scale? How do you organize programs, whether it’s compensation, whether it’s, you know, training?” of that is going to look very different. But I think the thing you’ll see is just … there were these that we’ve lived with, whether it was time or or budget, in some cases. And I think those are going to go away. And the promise is that if we are flexible and and we use technology in the right way, that we’ll actually come away a much evolved and efficient workforce.
SM: Well, I think you showed us some of the passion that you’ve talked about being the thing that gives you energy to lead that organization of 1,300 people worldwide. Anjali, thank you much for being here today.
AS: Thank you. This great.