Stephanie Mehta: Welcome, Anjali. I’m glad you’re here with us today.
Anjali Sud: Thank you, it is great to here.
SM: At Vimeo, you lead a workforce of 1,300 people worldwide — you creatives, you have finance people, you have technologists. So I’m to start with a really easy question: what was it to manage this diverse workforce through a global pandemic, a racial reckoning a very fraught return to office?
AS: Oh, it was breeze, Stephanie. No, it was really challenging. You know, I the only constant has been change. And as a leader, obviously — you have a workforce that’s looking for certainty, and they’re to control what’s happening around them. And I think what all found, as leaders, no matter what company you were … responsible for, that you couldn’t offer certainty, and you couldn’t always control the environment and the around you. And so, you know, for me, it was really agility. How do we stay flexible as a team? How do we communicate real time and keep people informed as we try and move through things? And then, just how do we lead with more humanity? You know, for Vimeo, of the things I’ve really learned over the last few years is each experience the world so differently. We have employees are remote. We have an incredible team in Ukraine … employees who are the front lines, who are literally at war. On the hand, you have people in different parts of the world are experiencing mental-health challenges or burnout, and so I think it was really just — the hardest part was being able to give everyone certainty, not being able to just apply a one-size-fits-all rule for everyone. I ultimately think it forced us, as a company, to more trust, because to be agile and flexible, and to lead humanity, you have to trust each other. And so, I’m sort optimistic that actually we’re emerging from this time with culture that is more flexible and nimble, and also, hopefully, more trust.
SM: Can you give an example of that you put into place, perhaps during the pandemic, enhance communications or build trust or create a greater sense community or even to communicate that there is no certainty, that a muscle that you think you’ll continue to use in the far into the future?
AS: There’s a couple of things that we did. One — and are a video platform, so I obviously have to talk video, but I mean this sincerely — one of hardest parts, when you’re all sort of disparate, is lose context and you lose nuance when you communicate. And we make a concerted effort to move away from email and chat, text-based communication, much as possible, and actually try, particularly for our leadership team, we were communicating, to do it with your face, and your hands and your body and your emotions. we did that through live streaming a lot of communications, recording a lot of videos. We asynchronous video messages. So I send … I record my screen and just a note out to people. Every new hire does a video to and introduce themselves. A lot of our meetings we’ve replaced with just quick video presentations. And actually, what really did was allow the humanity and the context to come through I think that helped us a lot to, kind of, close. So that was one, I think, really important thing.
Another thing is, I think, just creating mechanisms to make it easier talk about when things aren’t working, because a critical part of being is recognizing we have an area that isn’t working. And so of the things that we do at Vimeo is we try — I this in all of my town halls, we do it in a of meetings — is always talk about what’s working, what are our top three things, what isn’t working — yet. And we’ve kind of created, I think, a framework sort of takes the stigma away from talking about what’s not working. And when make that normalized and comfortable for people, I feel like it’s allowed us to be more open, an organization, about what do we need to change, do we need to pivot. And both of those, being more video-first in our and being more transparent and normalizing what’s not working, I think has been really helpful, certainly something we’re carrying forward.
SM: I love that advice about being video-first. So many of our members our workforce live in a video world. They’re used to video as a means of communication. Which brings me my next question. You’ve talked about how the organization has changed. How do you see the workforce changing? What is with the young millennials, and even, now, the first wave of Gen Z coming into workplace?
AS: I think it’s incredibly different. And, you know, one of the that we think about at Vimeo a lot is a of the mechanisms and communication modes that we still use today, they’re really antiquated. They were for a totally different environment and a totally different generation. But I see a lot of differences. One them, I think, is the line between your personal life and work life is blending. … If you think about your personal life — at TikTok. This generation is used to consuming content, learning, engaging, a very specific way. And if they then have come to work and to be trained on a job, a 300-page manual? Like, it’s not going to happen, right? Or you miss the meeting, and you have to watch Zoom recording of a three-hour meeting — that’s just going to happen. And so I think that there is definitely sort of — you know, we talk about the “consumerization of enterprise.” Those are just fancy words saying the way … we communicate and interact in our lives is going to translate to work. And so I think that’s an area of opportunity.
The other thing I see from of the generation, the newest generation coming into the workforce, is of, of course mission-driven, but I think there’s a desire to really understand “why” behind things. And one of our communication mantras is we never talk about the “what” without the “why.” I think there’s a desire to — the idea that, well, there’s a hierarchy, or “My told me that this is what we’re going to do” — that, I think, is increasingly moving away, and people, don’t just want to do something because someone with formal authority told them to it. They want to do it because they understand why it matters, it ties to the mission. And I think that that forces to really bring more of the “why” into how we communicate motivate people.
So those are two of the things see, and then, you know, the third I think is just flexibility. I think — and is true of all of us, but particularly the younger generation — I they’re looking for flexibility and they want options and choices. And it’s always easy and feasible to provide ultimate flexibility, but this is where I try and orient it to agility. How can we have approaches and principles and committed to things, but also know when to question, and to actually pivot?
SM: Yeah. Anjali, can you share a few examples of ways you at Vimeo have tried to really be proactive when it comes to addressing understanding what your next generation of employees are going to want, either in terms purpose or in terms of benefits or in terms of flexibility? Are there or processes you’ve put in place that really speak to this sea change we’re seeing in terms of values from workforce?
AS: Firstly, of course, it’s all about listening, right? I think, like many organizations, the way we’ve tried listen and understand our workforce is very similar: it’s and As and engagement surveys, and things like that. And some of the that we’ve done, we have a people and culture NPS, net score, the same way we have for our users, for our teams. But I would say one of the things that we’ve really to do is appreciate that when we get inputs from our employees, 1,300 employees … you can’t at the averages. You can’t look at it all totality and try and pull out an obvious “Oh, this how everybody’s feeling.” Because what you actually — when you really dig into it and listen and do focus groups and talk to people — what you’ll find is there’s very different experiences and desires among your employees. so, I think for us, what we’ve really just to do is have a bunch of different listening mechanisms and then resist the urge to pull, like, “Oh, this is what everyone’s feeling, let’s just do this as the action.” And it’s hard, and we’re still kind figuring it out, but I will tell you, some of things that we’ve heard from employees have changed our approach hybrid work or travel or even things like our approach to compensation or our approach to and I. So I think it’s more just like I said, that listening, constantly really understanding what’s happening, but not treating everything as, like, an or the same. And for us, it’s been particularly because we have offices and teams in so many countries and the differences, they’re substantial. They’re really substantial, the way we solve different things. And we used to have a very, of, “One Vimeo” global approach in the name of consistency and fairness, and what found is we have to be more localized. We do. We have to design mechanisms to support our in a very different way, because their experiences and the world around them is different.
So I think that’s definitely been one, and will tell you, it has involved a lot of — an executive team and leadership team — it’s involved a of trying things, it not working, and changing them. And great example is our Q and A. I feel like leader I know has a perspective on whether they open Q and A or anonymous Q and A, or real-time Q and A. We’ve changed our approach there times, and I know we will again, because we’re figuring out the right way to listen and have a with a very diverse workforce.
SM: I want to stay on newcomers to the workplace for just moment, because another thing I hear from CEOs of my and older is a concern about making sure that we are not just providing youngest employees with the flexibility and the purpose that they need, also the training and the wisdom that comes, oftentimes, from in close proximity to a mentor or to somebody who’s the job for many more years. What is your philosophy and take making sure that knowledge transfer is happening?
AS: I think it’s a major challenge that I don’t that everyone will sort of have a solution for. I about that all the time. We have a very distributed at Vimeo. We have people in over eight countries. My executive team is entirely distributed. So I’ve really the benefits of being able to have a distributed and being able to attract talent and just be more inclusive. On the flip side, there’s definitely, think, a lack of the same kinds of learning opportunities and mentorship, particularly for the youngest that are entering the workforce. So I think it’s challenge. One of the approaches that we’ve been taking, and what’s sort nice, is we’re modeling it at the top. So if my entire team is distributed, that means I have to learn to provide real-time feedback, mentorship and development for a set of new executives who have just joined. We sort of changed up the executive team almost entirely in the last twelve months. I’ve had to deal with the same challenges. And we’ve had to literally — call it our operating system — we’ve had to an operating system, as an executive team, for how we’re going to work together that environment. How do we share real-time feedback? How do create the right communication loops? And so I think, from perspective, it’s more we have to be able to do it ourselves and model it and then, think it’s a more proven mechanism for young people. I will say, like many companies … I believe that in-person collaboration is really important for learning. We do have — we people into an office. If you’re remote, we ask to come in and spend time in a room with their team, do social activities, of those things. I don’t think they will go away, do I think they should. But, you know, candidly, it’s an area that I don’t think we’ve really figured perfectly and I think it’s really critical that as leaders, do that, so that this next generation is able get the same growth opportunities that we all had.
SM: Well, it’s interesting — the tools that you mentioned at the very beginning of our conversation, video, can be really helpful there. I’ve heard of a number of organizations have really encouraged their young people to present, as way of having to go out and find the they need. And then, because we have video tools available to us now, you know, they an opportunity to share their ideas with a large group of people, but first, kind of going the fact-finding and the research, and then sharing their ideas. In an earlier comment, you a little bit about mental illness and the different things that are bringing to work, whether it is, you know, exhaustion, burnout. During Black Lives Matter protests, we had a lot of people coming the office feeling trauma, and feeling really personal issues to the surface. I’m wondering if you can share a little bit about you deal with this increasing personal — you know, people bring their whole selves to the office, which we encourage, sometimes, bring things, parts of themselves that are challenging.
AS: … I’ve always thought the responsibility of a leader is to empower people do their best work and the responsibility of a company is to empower our people to their best work. And so, of course, we have a real role to play in supporting things mental-health issues or burnout. And, you know, the way I think, like many companies, the way we probably sought to do that was more, you know, you’re seeing a problem and you’re reacting by trying to mental-health resources or support or time off. And, I think — and empathy, just empathy. I that’s really important. And I always say, to so many of managers … just care. If we just care, a lot things get easier. You don’t have to design a mechanisms if you just have the right people in place care. At the same time, I will say what we’re realizing now, in of this next phase, is that that’s a reactive approach and the root cause — that we can control at Vimeo — the root cause of a lot of and burnout is sometimes people either don’t have enough … focus, we’re people to do too many things or they don’t feel they’re supported in doing those things. And that, I think, is where we should be spending more time — is how we actually set the right prioritization and focus. There’s issue there, right? There’s a root cause there that’s a “Oh, I like I’m stressed because there’s too much going on. I don’t feel to solve it.” Then, we should get into the “What the detail there, and do we need to do things differently?” And, you know, one our themes at Vimeo this year was “Do less, better.”
SM: As the economy starts to, maybe, move sideways, you think that there are going to be stakeholders who say, you know, “Out with all of this touchy-feely, workplace-as-a-family stuff. Where are my results?”
AS: Absolutely. I think the pendulum has swung pretty clearly. I mean, I work in SAS, software as a service, so we went from “growth at all cost” to “profitability,” you know, pendulum swing. My perspective this — and it hasn’t changed — I think best leaders and cultures deliver results and treat people well. I actually think, if you treat people well, with and empathy, you will get better results. And so, know, for me, I think what I observed over the last years is — that part, I think, hasn’t changed shouldn’t change. There were, I think, a lot of times when companies, we did things because it was lip service or we felt pressured. And that’s not going be sustainable. But that’s not what — ultimately, that’s not what people need, in any case. So, know, I sort of see it as — the you channel how you are caring towards your employees and how are empathetic, always should be in service of helping people do best work, which will deliver results, which will be for the bottom line. And you have to believe that. You to be committed to that and if you use consistently in your decision-making, it should not be a trade-off. These are not mutually exclusive things.
SM: Anjali, how have been taking care of yourself during this period of tremendous turmoil change, but also growth? You mentioned you just had a baby. There’s a on your shoulders. How, as a leader, do you practice some self-care or how do make sure that you’re getting the balance you need to the most effective leader you can be?
AS: I think — recently, the phrase I a lot to myself is “two things can be true, can be true.” I say this a lot. And me, I think of it as, like, “This job is hard, and it’s gotten harder.” We went public the height of the pandemic and last year, market volatility has been tremendous. know, we’re obviously going through a ton with post-pandemic, we have a team Ukraine going through a war — all these things that have happened. And so, it’s a hard job, it’s an incredibly privileged job. It’s a gift, right? And so, think for me, it’s sort of acknowledging both of things has helped me a lot. The way I’ve tried kind of lead, has been — it’s always been way, which is, for me, it’s I have to have passion. I to have passion. I have to believe so deeply that what is doing is important and matters for the world. And if have passion, I have energy and then I will — I can kind of through anything. I have to find joy in my team. I feel like, especially in times, I look back at my career and actually, some of most fulfilling times in work were when — in the hardest business situations. But it’s because brought a group of people together all on one team, so I think that’s been, you know, a really big of it. And then, yeah, like, you have to be a selfish sometimes, and take care of yourself. And I am really fortunate. think I have a great support network around me and I do … My husband I have a deal, where on Sundays, I disappear for a couple of hours. I just and I walk around the city and I listen to my music and do whatever I need do, and that’s really important.
SM: So you talked how hybrid work is going to look very different in the than how we describe it today. It’s basically in office couple of days, work from home a couple of days. Tell us a little bit more about what you could potentially see that evolving into.
AS: I think idea of an office as a time and place completely away. And I think it’s really going to be people are going to want to from anywhere, anywhere in the world. Even the concept of where you’re is going to change. And then the idea of like “I’m going work on this time zone” or “I’m going to attend this meeting that’s on this date” — I think that’s going to away. And I think what you’re going to find more and more work, particularly from knowledge workers, is to be done anywhere, anytime. Communication and collaboration will asynchronously and we will be using tools and technology — whether it’s video, whether it’s AI — basically enable that at scale among many people, anywhere in the world. And I think leadership, leaders are going to look different. Because I think it’s going to — if you think about the skill set to be a CEO 30 years ago versus what that will require now — think in the future … the skill set is going be like, “How do you communicate with diverse, global audiences and employees across zones in a way that is effective, that provides context and alignment at scale? How you organize programs, whether it’s compensation, whether it’s, you know, training?” All of that is going to very different. But I think the ultimate thing you’ll is just … there were these constraints that we’ve with, whether it was time or place or budget, some cases. And I think those constraints are going to away. And the promise is that if we are flexible and smart and we use in the right way, that we’ll actually come away a more evolved and efficient workforce.
SM: Well, I think you just showed us some of passion that you’ve talked about as being the thing that you energy to lead that organization of 1,300 people worldwide. Anjali, thank you much for being here today.
AS: Thank you. This was great.