Stephanie Mehta: Welcome, Anjali. I’m so glad you’re here with today.
Anjali Sud: Thank you, it is great to be here.
SM: At Vimeo, you lead a of 1,300 people worldwide — you have creatives, you have finance people, you technologists. So I’m going to start with a really question: what was it like to manage this diverse workforce through a global pandemic, racial reckoning and a very fraught return to office?
AS: Oh, was a breeze, Stephanie. No, it was really challenging. You know, I think only constant has been change. And as a leader, you obviously — you have workforce that’s looking for certainty, and they’re looking to control what’s happening them. And I think what we all found, as leaders, no what company you were … responsible for, was that you couldn’t offer certainty, and couldn’t always control the environment and the things around you. And so, you know, for me, was really about agility. How do we stay flexible as a team? How we communicate in real time and keep people informed as try and move through things? And then, also just how do we lead with more humanity? know, for Vimeo, one of the things I’ve really over the last few years is we each experience the world differently. We have employees who are remote. We have an incredible team in Ukraine … who are on the front lines, who are literally at war. On the hand, you have people in different parts of the who are experiencing mental-health challenges or burnout, and so think it was really just — the hardest part was not being able to give certainty, not being able to just apply a one-size-fits-all rule for everyone. But I think it forced us, as a company, to build more trust, because be agile and flexible, and to lead with humanity, you to trust each other. And so, I’m sort of optimistic that we’re emerging from this time with a culture that is more flexible and nimble, and also, hopefully, has trust.
SM: Can you give an example of something that you into place, perhaps during the pandemic, to enhance communications or build or create a greater sense of community or even communicate that there is no certainty, that is a that you think you’ll continue to use in the organization far into the future?
AS: There’s couple of things that we did. One — and we a video platform, so I obviously have to talk about video, but I this sincerely — one of the hardest parts, when you’re all of disparate, is you lose context and you lose nuance when you communicate. And we did make a effort to move away from email and chat, text-based communication, as much as possible, and try, particularly for our leadership team, when we were communicating, to do with your face, and your hands and your body your emotions. And we did that through live streaming a lot communications, recording a lot of videos. We sent asynchronous messages. So I send … I record my screen and just send a note to people. Every new hire does a video to and introduce themselves. A lot of our meetings we’ve actually replaced just quick video presentations. And actually, what that really did was the humanity and the context to come through and I that helped us a lot to, kind of, stay close. So that one, I think, really important thing.
Another important thing is, think, just creating mechanisms to make it easier to talk about when things aren’t working, because critical part of being agile is recognizing we have an area that isn’t working. And one of the things that we do at Vimeo is we try — I do this in all my town halls, we do it in a lot of meetings — is always talk about what’s working, are our top three things, and what isn’t working — yet. And we’ve of created, I think, a framework that sort of takes the stigma away from about what’s not working. And when you make that normalized and for people, I feel like it’s allowed us to more open, as an organization, about what do we to change, what do we need to pivot. And both of those, more video-first in our communication and being more transparent normalizing what’s not working, I think has been really helpful, and certainly something we’re carrying forward.
SM: I that advice about being video-first. So many of our members of our workforce live in a world. They’re used to video as a means of communication. Which brings me my next question. You’ve talked about how the organization has changed. How do you see workforce changing? What is different with the young millennials, and even, now, the wave of Gen Z coming into the workplace?
AS: I think it’s different. And, you know, one of the things that we about at Vimeo a lot is a lot of mechanisms and communication modes that we still use today, they’re really antiquated. They designed for a totally different environment and a totally generation. But I see a lot of differences. One of them, I think, the line between your personal life and work life definitely blending. … If you think about your personal life — look at TikTok. generation is used to consuming content, learning, engaging, in a specific way. And if they then have to come to work to be trained on a job, read a 300-page manual? Like, it’s not going happen, right? Or if you miss the meeting, and you have to watch Zoom recording of a three-hour meeting — that’s just not going to happen. And so I think that is definitely sort of this — you know, we about the “consumerization of enterprise.” Those are just fancy for saying the way … we communicate and interact our personal lives is going to translate to work. And so definitely think that’s an area of opportunity.
The other thing I see sort of the generation, the newest generation coming into the workforce, is sort of, of course mission-driven, I think there’s a desire to really understand the “why” things. And one of our communication mantras is we talk about the “what” without the “why.” And I think there’s a desire to — the that, well, there’s a hierarchy, or “My boss told me that is what we’re going to do” or — that, I think, increasingly moving away, and people, they don’t just want to do something someone with formal authority told them to do it. They want to it because they understand why it matters, why it ties to the mission. And I think that that leaders to really bring more of the “why” into how we and motivate people.
So those are two of the I see, and then, you know, the third I is just flexibility. I think — and this is true all of us, but particularly the younger generation — I think they’re for flexibility and they want options and choices. And it’s not always easy and feasible provide ultimate flexibility, but this is where I try and orient it to agility. How can we have approaches and principles and committed to things, but also know when to question, when to actually pivot?
SM: Yeah. Anjali, can you a few examples of ways that you at Vimeo have tried to really be proactive it comes to addressing or understanding what your next generation of employees are going want, either in terms of purpose or in terms benefits or in terms of flexibility? Are there programs or processes you’ve put in place that really to this big sea change we’re seeing in terms of values from the workforce?
AS: Firstly, course, it’s all about listening, right? And I think, many organizations, the way we’ve tried to listen and understand our workforce is very similar: it’s and As and engagement surveys, and things like that. And some the things that we’ve done, we have a people and culture NPS, promoter score, the same way we have for our users, for our internal teams. But I would one of the things that we’ve really tried to do is appreciate that we get inputs from our employees, 1,300 employees … you can’t look at averages. You can’t look at it all in totality and try and pull out an obvious “Oh, this how everybody’s feeling.” Because what you actually — when you really dig into it truly listen and do focus groups and talk to — what you’ll find is actually there’s very different and desires among your employees. And so, I think for us, we’ve really just tried to do is have a bunch different listening mechanisms and then resist the urge to conveniently pull, like, “Oh, is what everyone’s feeling, let’s just do this thing as the action.” And it’s hard, and we’re still of figuring it out, but I will tell you, some of the things that we’ve heard from have changed our approach to hybrid work or travel or things like our approach to compensation or our approach to DE and I. So I think it’s more like I said, that agile listening, constantly really understanding what’s happening, but treating everything as, like, an average or the same. And us, it’s been particularly stark because we have offices and teams so many different countries and the differences, they’re substantial. They’re substantial, about the way we solve different things. And used to have a very, sort of, “One Vimeo” global approach the name of consistency and fairness, and what we found we have to be more localized. We really do. We have to design mechanisms to support our in a very different way, because their experiences and the around them is quite different.
So I think that’s definitely been one, and I will tell you, it involved a lot of — as an executive team and leadership team — it’s involved a lot of things, it not working, and changing them. And a great example is our Q A. I feel like every leader I know has perspective on whether they do open Q and A or anonymous Q and A, real-time Q and A. We’ve changed our approach there multiple times, and I know will again, because we’re still figuring out the right way to listen and have a with a very diverse workforce.
SM: I want to stay on newcomers the workplace for just another moment, because another thing I hear from of my generation and older is a concern about sure that we are not just providing our youngest employees with the flexibility and the purpose they need, but also the training and the wisdom comes, oftentimes, from being in close proximity to a mentor to somebody who’s done the job for many more years. What is your philosophy and take on making that knowledge transfer is happening?
AS: I think it’s a major challenge that I don’t know everyone will sort of have a solution for. I think about that all time. We have a very distributed workforce at Vimeo. We have people in over countries. My executive team is entirely distributed. So I’ve really realized benefits of being able to have a distributed workforce and being able to attract talent and just be inclusive. On the flip side, there’s definitely, I think, a of the same kinds of learning opportunities and mentorship, particularly for the youngest that are entering the workforce. So I think it’s a challenge. One the approaches that we’ve been taking, and what’s sort nice, is we’re modeling it at the top. So my entire executive team is distributed, that means I have to learn how to real-time feedback, mentorship and development for a whole set new executives who have just joined. We have sort of changed up the executive team almost entirely the last twelve months. So I’ve had to deal the same challenges. And we’ve had to literally — call it our operating system — we’ve had to an operating system, as an executive team, for how we’re to work together in that environment. How do we share real-time feedback? do we create the right communication loops? And so I think, my perspective, it’s more we have to be able to it ourselves and model it and then, I think it’s a more proven mechanism for people. I will say, like many companies … I do believe in-person collaboration is really important for learning. We do — we bring people into an office. If you’re remote, ask folks to come in and spend time in a room with their team, do social activities, of those things. I don’t think they will go away, do I think they should. But, you know, candidly, it’s an area that I don’t think we’ve figured out perfectly and I think it’s really critical that as leaders, we that, so that this next generation is able to get the growth opportunities that we all had.
SM: Well, and it’s interesting — the tools that mentioned at the very beginning of our conversation, around video, can be really helpful there. I’ve heard of a of organizations that have really encouraged their young people present, as a way of having to go out and the information they need. And then, because we have video available to us now, you know, they have an opportunity to share their ideas with a large group people, but first, kind of going through the fact-finding the research, and then sharing their ideas. In an earlier comment, you talked little bit about mental illness and the different things that people are bringing work, whether it is, you know, exhaustion, burnout. During the Lives Matter protests, we had a lot of people coming to the office trauma, and feeling really personal issues bubble to the surface. I’m wondering you can share a little bit about how you deal with this increasing — you know, when people bring their whole selves to the office, we encourage, sometimes, they bring things, parts of themselves are challenging.
AS: Yeah … I’ve always thought the responsibility of a is to empower people to do their best work and the responsibility a company is to empower our people to do their best work. so, of course, we have a real role to play in things like mental-health issues or burnout. And, you know, the I think, like many companies, the way we initially probably sought do that was more, you know, you’re seeing a problem and you’re reacting by trying provide mental-health resources or support or time off. And, I think — and empathy, just empathy. think that’s really important. And I always say, to many of our managers … just care. If we care, a lot of things get easier. You don’t have to design a mechanisms if you just have the right people in who care. At the same time, I will say what we’re realizing now, sort of this next phase, is that that’s a approach and actually the root cause — that we can control Vimeo — the root cause of a lot of stress burnout is sometimes people either don’t have enough … focus, we’re asking people to do too many things or don’t feel like they’re supported in doing those things. And that, I think, actually where we should be spending more time — is how do actually set the right prioritization and focus. There’s some issue there, right? There’s a root cause there that’s “Oh, I feel like I’m stressed because there’s too much going on. I don’t equipped to solve it.” Then, we should get into the “What is the there, and do we need to do things differently?” And, you know, one of our themes Vimeo this year was “Do less, better.”
SM: As economy starts to, maybe, move sideways, do you think that there are going be stakeholders who say, you know, “Out with all of touchy-feely, the workplace-as-a-family stuff. Where are my results?”
AS: Absolutely. I think the pendulum has swung pretty clearly. I mean, I work in SAS, software as a service, so we already from “growth at all cost” to “profitability,” you know, pendulum swing. My perspective on — and it hasn’t changed — I think the best leaders and cultures results and treat people well. And I actually think, if you treat people well, with kindness and empathy, will get better results. And so, you know, for me, I think what I observed the last few years is — that part, I think, hasn’t and shouldn’t change. There were, I think, a lot of times when companies, we did because maybe it was lip service or we felt pressured. And that’s not going to be sustainable. But that’s what — ultimately, that’s not what people need, in any case. So, you know, I sort of it as — the way you channel how you caring towards your employees and how you are empathetic, always should in service of helping people do their best work, which will deliver results, which will be good the bottom line. And you have to believe that. You have to be committed to and if you use that consistently in your decision-making, it should be a trade-off. These are not mutually exclusive things.
SM: Anjali, how have you been care of yourself during this period of tremendous turmoil and change, but growth? You mentioned you just had a baby. There’s a on your shoulders. How, as a leader, do you practice some self-care how do you make sure that you’re getting the balance you to be the most effective leader you can be?
AS: I — recently, the phrase I use a lot to myself is “two things be true, both can be true.” I say this a lot. And for me, think of it as, like, “This job is hard, and it’s gotten harder.” We public at the height of the pandemic and last year, volatility has been tremendous. You know, we’re obviously going a ton with post-pandemic, we have a team in Ukraine through a war — all these things that have happened. And so, it’s hard job, and it’s an incredibly privileged job. It’s a gift, right? so, I think for me, it’s sort of acknowledging both of those things helped me a lot. The way I’ve tried to of lead, has been — it’s always been this way, which is, for me, it’s have to have passion. I have to have passion. I have to believe so deeply that what is doing is important and matters for the world. if I have passion, I have energy and then will — I can kind of move through anything. I have to find joy in my team. feel like, especially in hard times, I look back my career and actually, some of my most fulfilling times in work when — in the hardest business situations. But it’s it brought a group of people together all on one team, and I think that’s been, you know, a really big of it. And then, yeah, like, you have to a little selfish sometimes, and take care of yourself. And am really fortunate. I think I have a great network around me and I do … My husband and have a deal, where on Sundays, I disappear for a couple hours. I just disappear and I walk around the and I listen to my music and do whatever I need do, and that’s really important.
SM: So you talked about how hybrid is going to look very different in the future how we describe it today. It’s basically in office a couple of days, work home a couple of other days. Tell us a little bit more about what you could see that evolving into.
AS: I think the idea of an office as a time and place goes away. And I think it’s really going to be people going to want to work from anywhere, anywhere in the world. the concept of where you’re located is going to change. And the idea of like “I’m going to work on this time zone” or “I’m going to attend this that’s scheduled on this date” — I think that’s going to go away. I think what you’re going to find is more more work, particularly from knowledge workers, is going to be anywhere, anytime. Communication and collaboration will happen asynchronously and will be using tools and technology — whether it’s video, whether it’s — to basically enable that at scale among many people, anywhere in the world. And then I leadership, leaders are going to look different. Because I think it’s to require — if you think about the skill set to be global CEO 30 years ago versus what that will require now — I in the future … the skill set is going to like, “How do you communicate with diverse, global audiences and employees across time zones in a that is effective, that provides context and alignment at scale? How do you organize programs, whether it’s compensation, it’s, you know, training?” All of that is going look very different. But I think the ultimate thing you’ll is just … there were these constraints that we’ve lived with, whether it time or place or budget, in some cases. And think those constraints are going to go away. And the promise is that if we flexible and smart and we use technology in the right way, that we’ll actually come away a much evolved and efficient workforce.
SM: Well, I think you showed us some of the passion that you’ve talked about as the thing that gives you energy to lead that of 1,300 people worldwide. Anjali, thank you so much for being here today.
AS: you. This was great.