Stephanie Mehta: Welcome, Anjali. I’m so you’re here with us today.
Anjali Sud: Thank you, is great to be here.
SM: At Vimeo, you a workforce of 1,300 people worldwide — you have creatives, you finance people, you have technologists. So I’m going to start with a really easy question: what it like to manage this diverse workforce through a global pandemic, a racial reckoning and a very return to office?
AS: Oh, it was a breeze, Stephanie. No, it was really challenging. You know, I think only constant has been change. And as a leader, you obviously — have a workforce that’s looking for certainty, and they’re looking to control what’s around them. And I think what we all found, as leaders, no matter what company you … responsible for, was that you couldn’t offer certainty, and you couldn’t always control the environment and things around you. And so, you know, for me, it was really about agility. How we stay flexible as a team? How do we communicate in real time and people informed as we try and move through things? And then, also just how we lead with more humanity? You know, for Vimeo, one of the things I’ve learned over the last few years is we each the world so differently. We have employees who are remote. have an incredible team in Ukraine … employees who are on the lines, who are literally at war. On the other hand, you have people in different parts the world who are experiencing mental-health challenges or burnout, so I think it was really just — the hardest part not being able to give everyone certainty, not being able to just apply one-size-fits-all rule for everyone. But I ultimately think it forced us, as a company, to build trust, because to be agile and flexible, and to lead humanity, you have to trust each other. And so, I’m sort of optimistic that actually we’re emerging this time with a culture that is more flexible nimble, and also, hopefully, has more trust.
SM: Can you an example of something that you put into place, perhaps during the pandemic, to communications or build trust or create a greater sense of community even to communicate that there is no certainty, that is muscle that you think you’ll continue to use in the far into the future?
AS: There’s a couple of things we did. One — and we are a video platform, so I obviously have to about video, but I mean this sincerely — one of the parts, when you’re all sort of disparate, is you lose context and lose nuance when you communicate. And we did make a concerted effort to away from email and chat, text-based communication, as much as possible, and try, particularly for our leadership team, when we were communicating, to do it your face, and your hands and your body and your emotions. And we did that through live a lot of communications, recording a lot of videos. We sent asynchronous video messages. I send … I record my screen and just a note out to people. Every new hire does video to welcome and introduce themselves. A lot of our meetings we’ve replaced with just quick video presentations. And actually, what that really did was allow the humanity the context to come through and I think that helped a lot to, kind of, stay close. So that was one, I think, really important thing.
Another thing is, I think, just creating mechanisms to make it easier to talk about when aren’t working, because a critical part of being agile recognizing we have an area that isn’t working. And so one of the things that we at Vimeo is we try — I do this all of my town halls, we do it in a of meetings — is always talk about what’s working, what are our three things, and what isn’t working — yet. And we’ve kind of created, think, a framework that sort of takes the stigma from talking about what’s not working. And when you make that normalized and for people, I feel like it’s allowed us to be open, as an organization, about what do we need to change, what do we need pivot. And both of those, being more video-first in our communication being more transparent and normalizing what’s not working, I think has really helpful, and certainly something we’re carrying forward.
SM: love that advice about being video-first. So many of our of our workforce live in a video world. They’re used video as a means of communication. Which brings me to next question. You’ve talked about how the organization has changed. do you see the workforce changing? What is different with the young millennials, even, now, the first wave of Gen Z coming into the workplace?
AS: think it’s incredibly different. And, you know, one of the things we think about at Vimeo a lot is a lot of the mechanisms and communication modes that still use today, they’re really antiquated. They were designed for a totally different environment and a different generation. But I see a lot of differences. One of them, I think, is the line your personal life and work life is definitely blending. … If think about your personal life — look at TikTok. generation is used to consuming content, learning, engaging, in very specific way. And if they then have to to work and to be trained on a job, read 300-page manual? Like, it’s not going to happen, right? Or if you miss the meeting, you have to watch the Zoom recording of a three-hour — that’s just not going to happen. And so I think that there is sort of this — you know, we talk about the “consumerization of enterprise.” Those are just fancy for saying the way … we communicate and interact our personal lives is going to translate to work. so I definitely think that’s an area of opportunity.
The other thing I see from of the generation, the newest generation coming into the workforce, sort of, of course mission-driven, but I think there’s a desire to really the “why” behind things. And one of our communication is we never talk about the “what” without the “why.” And I think there’s a desire to — the that, well, there’s a hierarchy, or “My boss told me that this is what we’re going to do” — that, I think, is increasingly moving away, and people, they don’t just want to do something someone with formal authority told them to do it. want to do it because they understand why it matters, why it ties to mission. And I think that that forces leaders to really bring more of “why” into how we communicate and motivate people.
So are two of the things I see, and then, you know, the third I think is flexibility. I think — and this is true of all of us, but the younger generation — I think they’re looking for flexibility and they options and choices. And it’s not always easy and feasible to provide flexibility, but this is where I try and orient it more to agility. How we have approaches and principles and be committed to things, but also know when to question, when to actually pivot?
SM: Yeah. Anjali, can you a few examples of ways that you at Vimeo have to really be proactive when it comes to addressing or understanding what your generation of employees are going to want, either in terms of purpose or in of benefits or in terms of flexibility? Are there programs or processes you’ve put in place that speak to this big sea change we’re seeing in terms of values the workforce?
AS: Firstly, of course, it’s all about listening, right? And think, like many organizations, the way we’ve tried to and understand our workforce is very similar: it’s Q and and engagement surveys, and things like that. And some of the things that we’ve done, we have people and culture NPS, net promoter score, the same way have for our users, for our internal teams. But I say one of the things that we’ve really tried to do appreciate that when we get inputs from our employees, 1,300 employees … can’t look at the averages. You can’t look at it all totality and try and pull out an obvious “Oh, this is everybody’s feeling.” Because what you actually — when you really dig into it and truly listen and focus groups and talk to people — what you’ll find is actually there’s very experiences and desires among your employees. And so, I think us, what we’ve really just tried to do is a bunch of different listening mechanisms and then resist the to conveniently pull, like, “Oh, this is what everyone’s feeling, let’s do this thing as the action.” And it’s hard, we’re still kind of figuring it out, but I will tell you, some of things that we’ve heard from employees have changed our approach to hybrid or travel or even things like our approach to or our approach to DE and I. So I it’s more just like I said, that agile listening, really understanding what’s happening, but not treating everything as, like, an average or the same. And for us, it’s particularly stark because we have offices and teams in so many countries and the differences, they’re substantial. They’re really substantial, about the way we solve different things. we used to have a very, sort of, “One Vimeo” approach in the name of consistency and fairness, and we found is we have to be more localized. really do. We have to design mechanisms to support our in a very different way, because their experiences and the world around them quite different.
So I think that’s definitely been one, and I will tell you, it has involved a of — as an executive team and leadership team — it’s involved a lot trying things, it not working, and changing them. And a great example is Q and A. I feel like every leader I know has a perspective whether they do open Q and A or anonymous Q and A, or real-time and A. We’ve changed our approach there multiple times, and know we will again, because we’re still figuring out the right to listen and have a dialogue with a very diverse workforce.
SM: I want stay on newcomers to the workplace for just another moment, because another thing I hear from CEOs my generation and older is a concern about making sure that we are not just providing youngest employees with the flexibility and the purpose that need, but also the training and the wisdom that comes, oftentimes, from in close proximity to a mentor or to somebody who’s done the for many more years. What is your philosophy and on making sure that knowledge transfer is happening?
AS: think it’s a major challenge that I don’t know everyone will sort of have a solution for. I think about that all the time. have a very distributed workforce at Vimeo. We have people in over eight countries. My executive is entirely distributed. So I’ve really realized the benefits of being able have a distributed workforce and being able to attract talent and just be inclusive. On the flip side, there’s definitely, I think, a lack of the same kinds learning opportunities and mentorship, particularly for the youngest folks that entering the workforce. So I think it’s a challenge. of the approaches that we’ve been taking, and what’s sort of nice, is we’re it at the top. So if my entire executive team is distributed, that I have to learn how to provide real-time feedback, mentorship and development for a set of new executives who have just joined. We sort of changed up the executive team almost entirely in the last twelve months. I’ve had to deal with the same challenges. And we’ve had to literally — we call our operating system — we’ve had to design an operating system, an executive team, for how we’re going to work in that environment. How do we share real-time feedback? How do we create right communication loops? And so I think, from my perspective, it’s more we to be able to do it ourselves and model it and then, I think it’s a proven mechanism for young people. I will say, like many companies … do believe that in-person collaboration is really important for learning. do have — we bring people into an office. If you’re remote, we folks to come in and spend time in a room with their team, do activities, all of those things. I don’t think they will go away, nor do think they should. But, you know, candidly, it’s an area that I don’t think we’ve really out perfectly and I think it’s really critical that as leaders, we do that, that this next generation is able to get the same growth opportunities that all had.
SM: Well, and it’s interesting — the tools that you mentioned at very beginning of our conversation, around video, can be really helpful there. I’ve heard of number of organizations that have really encouraged their young people present, as a way of having to go out and find the they need. And then, because we have video tools available to us now, you know, they have an to share their ideas with a large group of people, but first, of going through the fact-finding and the research, and sharing their ideas. In an earlier comment, you talked a little about mental illness and the different things that people are to work, whether it is, you know, exhaustion, burnout. the Black Lives Matter protests, we had a lot people coming to the office feeling trauma, and feeling really personal issues to the surface. I’m wondering if you can share a little bit about how you deal with this personal — you know, when people bring their whole selves to the office, which we encourage, sometimes, bring things, parts of themselves that are challenging.
AS: … I’ve always thought the responsibility of a leader is to empower people to do their work and the responsibility of a company is to empower our people to their best work. And so, of course, we have a role to play in supporting things like mental-health issues burnout. And, you know, the way I think, like many companies, the we initially probably sought to do that was more, know, you’re seeing a problem and you’re reacting by trying provide mental-health resources or support or time off. And, think — and empathy, just empathy. I think that’s important. And I always say, to so many of our … just care. If we just care, a lot of things get easier. You don’t have to a hundred mechanisms if you just have the right in place who care. At the same time, I will what we’re realizing now, in sort of this next phase, is that that’s reactive approach and actually the root cause — that we can at Vimeo — the root cause of a lot of and burnout is sometimes people either don’t have enough … focus, we’re asking people to too many things or they don’t feel like they’re in doing those things. And that, I think, is where we should be spending more time — is do we actually set the right prioritization and focus. There’s some there, right? There’s a root cause there that’s a “Oh, I feel like I’m because there’s too much going on. I don’t feel equipped to solve it.” Then, we get into the “What is the detail there, and do we need to do differently?” And, you know, one of our themes at this year was “Do less, better.”
SM: As the starts to, maybe, move sideways, do you think that are going to be stakeholders who say, you know, “Out all of this touchy-feely, the workplace-as-a-family stuff. Where are my results?”
AS: Absolutely. think the pendulum has already swung pretty clearly. I mean, work in SAS, software as a service, so we already went “growth at all cost” to “profitability,” you know, pendulum swing. My perspective this — and it hasn’t changed — I think best leaders and cultures deliver results and treat people well. And I actually think, if treat people well, with kindness and empathy, you will get better results. And so, you know, for me, think what I observed over the last few years — that part, I think, hasn’t changed and shouldn’t change. were, I think, a lot of times when companies, we did things because maybe it was lip service we felt pressured. And that’s not going to be sustainable. that’s not what — ultimately, that’s not what people need, any case. So, you know, I sort of see as — the way you channel how you are caring towards your employees and how are empathetic, always should be in service of helping people do best work, which will deliver results, which will be good the bottom line. And you have to believe that. You have to be committed that and if you use that consistently in your decision-making, it should be a trade-off. These are not mutually exclusive things.
SM: Anjali, how you been taking care of yourself during this period of tremendous turmoil and change, but also growth? You you just had a baby. There’s a lot on your shoulders. How, as a leader, do practice some self-care or how do you make sure that you’re getting the balance need to be the most effective leader you can be?
AS: I — recently, the phrase I use a lot to myself “two things can be true, both can be true.” I this a lot. And for me, I think of as, like, “This job is hard, and it’s gotten harder.” We went public at the height of pandemic and last year, market volatility has been tremendous. You know, we’re obviously going through ton with post-pandemic, we have a team in Ukraine going through a — all these things that have happened. And so, it’s hard job, and it’s an incredibly privileged job. It’s a gift, right? so, I think for me, it’s sort of acknowledging both of things has helped me a lot. The way I’ve to kind of lead, has been — it’s always been this way, is, for me, it’s I have to have passion. I have to passion. I have to believe so deeply that what Vimeo is is important and matters for the world. And if have passion, I have energy and then I will — I kind of move through anything. I have to find joy in my team. I like, especially in hard times, I look back at my career and actually, some my most fulfilling times in work were when — in hardest business situations. But it’s because it brought a group of together all on one team, and so I think that’s been, you know, a really part of it. And then, yeah, like, you have to be a little selfish sometimes, take care of yourself. And I am really fortunate. I think have a great support network around me and I do … My husband I have a deal, where on Sundays, I disappear a couple of hours. I just disappear and I walk around city and I listen to my music and do I need to do, and that’s really important.
SM: So talked about how hybrid work is going to look very in the future than how we describe it today. It’s basically office a couple of days, work from home a couple of days. Tell us a little bit more about what you could see that evolving into.
AS: I think the idea an office as a time and place completely goes away. And I think it’s going to be people are going to want to work anywhere, anywhere in the world. Even the concept of where you’re located is to change. And then the idea of like “I’m to work on this time zone” or “I’m going to this meeting that’s scheduled on this date” — I think that’s to go away. And I think what you’re going find is more and more work, particularly from knowledge workers, going to be done anywhere, anytime. Communication and collaboration will happen asynchronously and we will be using and technology — whether it’s video, whether it’s AI — to basically enable that at among many people, anywhere in the world. And then I think leadership, leaders are to look different. Because I think it’s going to require — if you think about the skill to be a global CEO 30 years ago versus what that will require now — think in the future … the skill set is to be like, “How do you communicate with diverse, global audiences and employees across time zones in way that is effective, that provides context and alignment at scale? do you organize programs, whether it’s compensation, whether it’s, you know, training?” All of that going to look very different. But I think the ultimate thing you’ll see just … there were these constraints that we’ve lived with, whether it was or place or budget, in some cases. And I think those constraints are going to away. And the promise is that if we are flexible and smart and use technology in the right way, that we’ll actually come away a more evolved and efficient workforce.
SM: Well, I think you just showed us some of passion that you’ve talked about as being the thing gives you energy to lead that organization of 1,300 people worldwide. Anjali, thank you so much for being today.
AS: Thank you. This was great.