Stephanie Mehta: Welcome, Anjali. I’m so glad you’re with us today.
Anjali Sud: Thank you, it is great to here.
SM: At Vimeo, you lead a workforce of 1,300 people — you have creatives, you have finance people, you have technologists. So I’m to start with a really easy question: what was it to manage this diverse workforce through a global pandemic, a racial reckoning and a very fraught to office?
AS: Oh, it was a breeze, Stephanie. No, was really challenging. You know, I think the only constant has been change. And as a leader, you obviously — you have a workforce that’s looking certainty, and they’re looking to control what’s happening around them. And I think what all found, as leaders, no matter what company you were … responsible for, that you couldn’t offer certainty, and you couldn’t always control environment and the things around you. And so, you know, for me, was really about agility. How do we stay flexible as a team? How do we communicate in real time and keep people as we try and move through things? And then, also just do we lead with more humanity? You know, for Vimeo, one of things I’ve really learned over the last few years is each experience the world so differently. We have employees who are remote. We an incredible team in Ukraine … employees who are on the front lines, are literally at war. On the other hand, you people in different parts of the world who are mental-health challenges or burnout, and so I think it was just — the hardest part was not being able give everyone certainty, not being able to just apply one-size-fits-all rule for everyone. But I ultimately think it forced us, as a company, build more trust, because to be agile and flexible, and to lead humanity, you have to trust each other. And so, I’m sort of optimistic actually we’re emerging from this time with a culture that is more flexible and nimble, also, hopefully, has more trust.
SM: Can you give an example of that you put into place, perhaps during the pandemic, enhance communications or build trust or create a greater sense of community even to communicate that there is no certainty, that a muscle that you think you’ll continue to use the organization far into the future?
AS: There’s a couple of things that we did. — and we are a video platform, so I obviously to talk about video, but I mean this sincerely — one of the parts, when you’re all sort of disparate, is you lose and you lose nuance when you communicate. And we did make a effort to move away from email and chat, text-based communication, much as possible, and actually try, particularly for our leadership team, when were communicating, to do it with your face, and your hands your body and your emotions. And we did that through streaming a lot of communications, recording a lot of videos. We asynchronous video messages. So I send … I record my screen and just a note out to people. Every new hire does a video welcome and introduce themselves. A lot of our meetings we’ve actually replaced with just video presentations. And actually, what that really did was allow the humanity and the to come through and I think that helped us a to, kind of, stay close. So that was one, I think, really thing.
Another important thing is, I think, just creating mechanisms make it easier to talk about when things aren’t working, because a critical part of being is recognizing we have an area that isn’t working. so one of the things that we do at Vimeo we try — I do this in all of my halls, we do it in a lot of meetings — is always talk about what’s working, what are top three things, and what isn’t working — yet. And we’ve of created, I think, a framework that sort of the stigma away from talking about what’s not working. And when make that normalized and comfortable for people, I feel like it’s us to be more open, as an organization, about what we need to change, what do we need to pivot. both of those, being more video-first in our communication and being more transparent and normalizing what’s working, I think has been really helpful, and certainly something we’re forward.
SM: I love that advice about being video-first. So many of members of our workforce live in a video world. They’re used video as a means of communication. Which brings me to my next question. You’ve talked about the organization has changed. How do you see the workforce changing? What is different with the millennials, and even, now, the first wave of Gen Z coming into the workplace?
AS: I it’s incredibly different. And, you know, one of the things that we about at Vimeo a lot is a lot of the and communication modes that we still use today, they’re really antiquated. were designed for a totally different environment and a different generation. But I see a lot of differences. One of them, I think, is the line your personal life and work life is definitely blending. … you think about your personal life — look at TikTok. This generation used to consuming content, learning, engaging, in a very specific way. And they then have to come to work and to be trained on job, read a 300-page manual? Like, it’s not going to happen, right? Or if you the meeting, and you have to watch the Zoom recording of three-hour meeting — that’s just not going to happen. And so I think that there definitely sort of this — you know, we talk about “consumerization of enterprise.” Those are just fancy words for saying the way … we and interact in our personal lives is going to translate to work. And so I think that’s an area of opportunity.
The other thing see from sort of the generation, the newest generation coming into the workforce, sort of, of course mission-driven, but I think there’s a to really understand the “why” behind things. And one of our communication mantras is we talk about the “what” without the “why.” And I think there’s a desire to — idea that, well, there’s a hierarchy, or “My boss told me that this is what we’re to do” or — that, I think, is increasingly moving away, and people, they don’t just want to do something because with formal authority told them to do it. They to do it because they understand why it matters, why it ties to mission. And I think that that forces leaders to bring more of the “why” into how we communicate motivate people.
So those are two of the things see, and then, you know, the third I think is flexibility. I think — and this is true of all of us, particularly the younger generation — I think they’re looking flexibility and they want options and choices. And it’s not always and feasible to provide ultimate flexibility, but this is I try and orient it more to agility. How we have approaches and principles and be committed to things, but also know when question, and when to actually pivot?
SM: Yeah. Anjali, can share a few examples of ways that you at Vimeo have tried really be proactive when it comes to addressing or understanding what your next generation employees are going to want, either in terms of purpose or terms of benefits or in terms of flexibility? Are there programs or you’ve put in place that really speak to this big sea we’re seeing in terms of values from the workforce?
AS: Firstly, course, it’s all about listening, right? And I think, like many organizations, way we’ve tried to listen and understand our workforce is similar: it’s Q and As and engagement surveys, and things like that. some of the things that we’ve done, we have a people and culture NPS, net promoter score, same way we have for our users, for our internal teams. But I would say one the things that we’ve really tried to do is that when we get inputs from our employees, 1,300 … you can’t look at the averages. You can’t look at all in totality and try and pull out an obvious “Oh, this is how everybody’s feeling.” Because you actually — when you really dig into it and truly listen and focus groups and talk to people — what you’ll find is actually there’s very experiences and desires among your employees. And so, I for us, what we’ve really just tried to do is a bunch of different listening mechanisms and then resist the urge conveniently pull, like, “Oh, this is what everyone’s feeling, let’s just do this thing as action.” And it’s hard, and we’re still kind of figuring it out, but will tell you, some of the things that we’ve heard employees have changed our approach to hybrid work or travel or even things like our approach to or our approach to DE and I. So I it’s more just like I said, that agile listening, constantly understanding what’s happening, but not treating everything as, like, an average or the same. for us, it’s been particularly stark because we have offices and teams so many different countries and the differences, they’re substantial. They’re really substantial, about the way solve different things. And we used to have a very, of, “One Vimeo” global approach in the name of and fairness, and what we found is we have be more localized. We really do. We have to design mechanisms support our teams in a very different way, because their experiences and world around them is quite different.
So I think that’s definitely been one, and I tell you, it has involved a lot of — as an executive team leadership team — it’s involved a lot of trying things, it working, and changing them. And a great example is our Q A. I feel like every leader I know has a on whether they do open Q and A or anonymous and A, or real-time Q and A. We’ve changed our approach multiple times, and I know we will again, because we’re figuring out the right way to listen and have a dialogue with very diverse workforce.
SM: I want to stay on newcomers to the workplace just another moment, because another thing I hear from CEOs of generation and older is a concern about making sure that we are not just providing our employees with the flexibility and the purpose that they need, but the training and the wisdom that comes, oftentimes, from being close proximity to a mentor or to somebody who’s done the job many more years. What is your philosophy and take on making sure knowledge transfer is happening?
AS: I think it’s a major that I don’t know that everyone will sort of a solution for. I think about that all the time. We have very distributed workforce at Vimeo. We have people in over eight countries. executive team is entirely distributed. So I’ve really realized the of being able to have a distributed workforce and being able to talent and just be more inclusive. On the flip side, there’s definitely, I think, a lack of the same kinds learning opportunities and mentorship, particularly for the youngest folks that are entering the workforce. So I think it’s challenge. One of the approaches that we’ve been taking, and what’s sort of nice, we’re modeling it at the top. So if my entire executive team is distributed, that means have to learn how to provide real-time feedback, mentorship and development for a whole set of executives who have just joined. We have sort of changed the executive team almost entirely in the last twelve months. So I’ve to deal with the same challenges. And we’ve had to literally — we call it operating system — we’ve had to design an operating system, as an executive team, for we’re going to work together in that environment. How do share real-time feedback? How do we create the right loops? And so I think, from my perspective, it’s more have to be able to do it ourselves and model it and then, I think it’s more proven mechanism for young people. I will say, like many … I do believe that in-person collaboration is really for learning. We do have — we bring people into office. If you’re remote, we ask folks to come in and spend time in a room with team, do social activities, all of those things. I don’t think they will go away, do I think they should. But, you know, candidly, it’s an that I don’t think we’ve really figured out perfectly I think it’s really critical that as leaders, we that, so that this next generation is able to get the same growth that we all had.
SM: Well, and it’s interesting — the tools you mentioned at the very beginning of our conversation, around video, be really helpful there. I’ve heard of a number of that have really encouraged their young people to present, as a way of having to go out and the information they need. And then, because we have video tools available us now, you know, they have an opportunity to share their ideas with a large group of people, first, kind of going through the fact-finding and the research, and then sharing ideas. In an earlier comment, you talked a little bit mental illness and the different things that people are bringing to work, whether is, you know, exhaustion, burnout. During the Black Lives Matter protests, we had lot of people coming to the office feeling trauma, feeling really personal issues bubble to the surface. I’m wondering if you can share a little bit about you deal with this increasing personal — you know, when people bring whole selves to the office, which we encourage, sometimes, they bring things, of themselves that are challenging.
AS: Yeah … I’ve thought the responsibility of a leader is to empower people to do best work and the responsibility of a company is empower our people to do their best work. And so, of course, have a real role to play in supporting things mental-health issues or burnout. And, you know, the way I think, like many companies, the we initially probably sought to do that was more, you know, you’re seeing a problem and you’re reacting by trying provide mental-health resources or support or time off. And, I think — and empathy, just empathy. I that’s really important. And I always say, to so many of our managers … care. If we just care, a lot of things get easier. don’t have to design a hundred mechanisms if you just the right people in place who care. At the same time, I say what we’re realizing now, in sort of this next phase, is that that’s a reactive approach actually the root cause — that we can control at Vimeo — the root of a lot of stress and burnout is sometimes people either don’t have enough … focus, we’re asking to do too many things or they don’t feel like they’re in doing those things. And that, I think, is actually where we should spending more time — is how do we actually set the right prioritization focus. There’s some issue there, right? There’s a root there that’s a “Oh, I feel like I’m stressed because there’s too much on. I don’t feel equipped to solve it.” Then, we should get the “What is the detail there, and do we need to do differently?” And, you know, one of our themes at Vimeo this year was “Do less, better.”
SM: the economy starts to, maybe, move sideways, do you think that there going to be stakeholders who say, you know, “Out all of this touchy-feely, the workplace-as-a-family stuff. Where are my results?”
AS: Absolutely. I the pendulum has already swung pretty clearly. I mean, I work SAS, software as a service, so we already went from “growth at all cost” to “profitability,” know, pendulum swing. My perspective on this — and hasn’t changed — I think the best leaders and cultures deliver results and treat people well. And I think, if you treat people well, with kindness and empathy, will get better results. And so, you know, for me, I think what I observed over last few years is — that part, I think, hasn’t changed shouldn’t change. There were, I think, a lot of times companies, we did things because maybe it was lip service or we felt pressured. that’s not going to be sustainable. But that’s not — ultimately, that’s not what people need, in any case. So, know, I sort of see it as — the way you how you are caring towards your employees and how you are empathetic, should be in service of helping people do their work, which will deliver results, which will be good for the bottom line. And you to believe that. You have to be committed to that and if you use consistently in your decision-making, it should not be a trade-off. are not mutually exclusive things.
SM: Anjali, how have you taking care of yourself during this period of tremendous turmoil change, but also growth? You mentioned you just had a baby. There’s a lot your shoulders. How, as a leader, do you practice some self-care or how do make sure that you’re getting the balance you need to the most effective leader you can be?
AS: I think — recently, phrase I use a lot to myself is “two can be true, both can be true.” I say this a lot. And for me, I of it as, like, “This job is hard, and it’s gotten harder.” went public at the height of the pandemic and year, market volatility has been tremendous. You know, we’re obviously through a ton with post-pandemic, we have a team in Ukraine going a war — all these things that have happened. so, it’s a hard job, and it’s an incredibly job. It’s a gift, right? And so, I think me, it’s sort of acknowledging both of those things has helped a lot. The way I’ve tried to kind of lead, has been — it’s always this way, which is, for me, it’s I have have passion. I have to have passion. I have to believe so deeply that Vimeo is doing is important and matters for the world. And if I passion, I have energy and then I will — I kind of move through anything. I have to find joy in my team. I feel like, especially hard times, I look back at my career and actually, some my most fulfilling times in work were when — in the hardest business situations. But it’s because brought a group of people together all on one team, and I think that’s been, you know, a really big of it. And then, yeah, like, you have to a little selfish sometimes, and take care of yourself. And am really fortunate. I think I have a great network around me and I do … My husband and I a deal, where on Sundays, I disappear for a couple hours. I just disappear and I walk around the city and listen to my music and do whatever I need to do, and that’s important.
SM: So you talked about how hybrid work is to look very different in the future than how describe it today. It’s basically in office a couple of days, work from home couple of other days. Tell us a little bit more about you could potentially see that evolving into.
AS: I think idea of an office as a time and place goes away. And I think it’s really going to be people are going to to work from anywhere, anywhere in the world. Even the concept of where you’re located is going to change. then the idea of like “I’m going to work on this time zone” or “I’m going to this meeting that’s scheduled on this date” — I think that’s going to go away. And I think you’re going to find is more and more work, particularly from knowledge workers, is going to done anywhere, anytime. Communication and collaboration will happen asynchronously and we will using tools and technology — whether it’s video, whether it’s AI — to basically enable that scale among many people, anywhere in the world. And I think leadership, leaders are going to look different. Because I think it’s going to — if you think about the skill set to be a global CEO 30 years ago what that will require now — I think in the future … skill set is going to be like, “How do you communicate with diverse, audiences and employees across time zones in a way that is effective, that provides and alignment at scale? How do you organize programs, whether it’s compensation, whether it’s, you know, training?” All that is going to look very different. But I think ultimate thing you’ll see is just … there were these constraints that we’ve with, whether it was time or place or budget, in some cases. I think those constraints are going to go away. And the promise that if we are flexible and smart and we use technology the right way, that we’ll actually come away a much evolved and efficient workforce.
SM: Well, I think you just showed some of the passion that you’ve talked about as being the thing that gives energy to lead that organization of 1,300 people worldwide. Anjali, thank so much for being here today.
AS: Thank you. This great.